Subject: Judyth: The reviews are in at JFKresearch http://www.jfkresearch.com/forum/index.php?&act=ST&f=3&t=623&linear=1 JFKresearch Assassination Forum -> JFKresearch -> General Information ----------------------------- THE MEN WHO KILLED KENNEDY, 3 hours...2 good, 1 awful Jack White Posted: Nov 17 2003, 11:28 PM Well, I guess I will be the first to comment. I am putting it under general info, since this is not strictly a review. But everyone can post their impressions under this thread. First I will give my wife's comments: When she saw Monk, she swooned "what a handsome guy!' When she watched the Judy Baker segment, she said "That woman is demented!" The first hour was great, with Jim Fetzer, David Mantik, Doug Weldon and Vince Palamara...all familiar names here. I give it an A+. The second hour was the terrible awful Judyth story. She departed widely from her previous phony story. Nigel was duped. This segment rates an F- or lower! The third hour was the Barr McClellan/Mac Wallace story, but with lots of new information, and pinned the crime on Lyndon and Edgar...but failed to mention Dulles. Well 2 out of 3 is not bad. I rate this segment B+ More to follow. Jack ---------------------------- ----------------------------- admin Posted: Nov 17 2003, 11:41 PM RE: THE MEN WHO KILLED KENNEDY I am very disappointed that Nigel Turner devoted an entire episode to Judyth. No substantiation. Just an hour of Judyth rambling on and embellishing her story. For example, she previously claimed that only one mental patient had been injected with the viral material. Tonight she said several were paraded in as unwilling guinea pigs. The episode IMO does not meet the standards that Turner established in the previous episodes. If she is to be believed we are to accept that she had ethical objections to mental patients being used as guinea pigs but didn't mind developing a method of killing Castro. And of course, once the technique was developed, it could be used on people other than Castro. Further, she admits to having foreknowledge of the assassination yet her ethics didn't cause her to attempt to alert the authorities. She claims that LHO placed the President's life above his own -- but Judyth was unwilling to do likewise. IMO she is full of shit and Nigel Turner was duped. I'd like to commend the members of our forum who appeared tonight: Jim Fetzer, David Mantik, Monk, Doug Weldon, Vince Palamara, and I don't want to leave anyone out. -------------------- _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ Rich DellaRosa Forum Admin "When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth" -- A Study In Scarlet, 1887 Sir Arthur Conan Doyle ---------------------------- ----------------------------- Jack White Posted: Nov 17 2003, 11:50 PM Judyth's lies My wife could not believe the fantastic Judyth tale. She kept asking..."how could a 19-year-old girl be connected to EVERY prominent person possible, and be trusted to be in charge of such important projects?" She found the romance and trysts particularly phony. Did you notice that she changed her story of how she met Lee? Now the story is that on her first day in New Orleans after being summoned there by Oshner, she was in the Post Office to mail a letter, dropped it and who else but Lee Oswald picked it up and handed it to her...and it was love at first sight. How romantic? She and he immediately hooked up, since Marina had not yet arrived in New Orleans. How convenient! Her story was a summary of virtually every book and plot regarding New Orleans, and EVERY person from Bannister to Ferrie to Shaw to Oshner to Mary to everyone else. lt was transparently phony...and largely different from her previous stories. Now regarding her last phone call to Lee, he was at the TSBD instead of North Beckly at midnight...and they talked an hour and a half during his work day! She also told of special CIA pay phones where for a nickel she and Lee could talk free for hours. Baloney. More later. Jack ---------------------------- ----------------------------- Mel Carlson Posted: Nov 18 2003, 02:19 AM RE: THE MEN WHO KILLED KENNEDY I agree withJack and Rich...episodes 1 and 3 were well done and all the researchers on this site who appeared were fantastic....Interesting that my wife had the same impression of Judyth as the other wives....Just not believable...My better half was giving the rolled up eyes look during the Judyth segment..I wish that episode had been used for the Zapruder film hoax........I have just finished reading the McClellan book and found it very good and quite convincing...I thought episode 3 convered the main points very well...... ---------------------------- ----------------------------- Sgt-At-Arms Posted: Nov 18 2003, 03:31 AM RE: THE MEN WHO KILLED KENNEDY Jack, Please tell Sue that she's in good company, that is if you consider Debra Conway "good company..." Just kidding. Thanks for the kind words, I'm blushing. I very much enjoyed seeing FETZER and MANTIK in the same show with Dr. LIVINGSTON, as the latter is now deceased. All three of them were at our Encinitas conference, but I was particularly honored to have had the opportunity to meet and converse with him (even though we got a late start because Jim and David went to pick him up--forgetting that we "lost an hour" since the "clocks" changed that night to daylight savings time). I also enjoyed the interviews with Vince Palamara and Doug Weldon. I thought that Ed Tatro was very well spoken, his observations and subsequent conclusions well reasoned and well expressed. I also commend Nigel Turner for his efforts to keep the subject alive... That said, I too share a level of disappointment previously expressed by others in this thread. As a series, I believe it is being billed as: TMWKK: THE FINAL CHAPTER Huh??? -- Nope. Not even close. Closer, maybe--but not "closed" by any means--and not FINAL, either. Rather than comment further on the specifics of my TOTAL SHOCK, I'll just leave it at that. Attached Image -------------------- _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ G. Burnham Sgt-At-Arms "It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep..." --Farewell America, 1968 James Hepburn ---------------------------- ----------------------------- David Healy Posted: Nov 18 2003, 02:08 PM RE: THE MEN WHO KILLED KENNEDY QUOTE (Mel Carlson @ Nov 18 2003, 02:19 AM) My better half was giving the rolled up eyes look during the Judyth segment..I wish that episode had been used for the Zapruder film hoax... Mel -- good call! When Nigel was stateside doing his interviews [earlier this year], we talked, actually for a few hours by phone. We discussed the state of the Zapruder film, alteration theroy[s] and of course the time factors for alteration, in shorthand we covered the whole Z-film film gamut. I say *shorthand* because we speak the same language regarding film/video production/post production. He ran me through the paces regarding optical printing and other aspect of film printing. Of course he's quite familiar with all the procedures. It's my belief, he, Nigel was still undecided about what he wanted to do regarding coverage of the Z-film alteration and it's specific relationship to the current 3 documentary's. He's also a VERY savey producer/director/editor - he knew what was coming this November. I believe we both agreed that, without access to either the main Z-film at NARA or ONE of the 3 optical prints made from the alledged Z-film camera original -- rehashing the same old Z-film stuff, using source material we KNOW is screwed up advances nothing, in fact, shed's more confusion on a already messy situation. The Z-film alteration issue is N O T dead by any means! We agreed to keep in touch --- DavidH ---------------------------- ----------------------------- Bernice Moore Posted: Nov 18 2003, 11:33 PM RE: THE MEN WHO KILLED KENNEDY Hi All: Though I did not receive the program,up here last evening.. Dixie, has been keeping me updated. ...She has a new lap top she's coming soon.. She mentions pretty well, and more, of what has been discussed above, and the following she noticed also, that what Judyth had posted as Cancun, (the honeymoon destination) then became near Cancun, and then to the Maya area (Chichen Itza) now has been changed to Merida... The Fairy Tale, continuously evolves.....Now Jack, how about sharing what Sue saw last evening, after all, that's only fair, how about posting a photo of the "handsome hunk".....don't look Monk. .but we would like to see, Please.. I think the rest of the Ladies would also...Thanks.... -------------------- B. ---------------------------- ----------------------------- Sandra Kasper Posted: Nov 18 2003, 11:40 PM RE: THE MEN WHO KILLED KENNEDY I agree with the above posts about the Judyth segment of TMWKK last night. She seemed totally loopy to me, just as she did in her forum posts. But strangely enough, I received two separate phone calls today from people I know who are farely well read on the assassination and are convinced that Oswald was not a shooter. Neither of these people had heard of Judyth Baker before. Of the three hours of programming, they both expressed to me that the Judyth episode was compelling to them. One told me -- "Now I know how Jack Ruby got cancer so fast." And the other one told me ... "Now we know why Oswald was trying to get on at the State Hospital," and "This made Oswald's trip to Mexico City understandable for the first time." I disagreed with them and told them that, in my opinion, the first hour was the most compelling, followed by the third hour on LBJ, and trailing badly was the Judyth interview -- and they both expressed surprise that I didn't find Judyth believable. This is posted just to pass along that some people see this differently. However, I think that if they had been privy to the emotional instability and senseless ramblings that Judyth exhibited on this forum they would have another opinion. ---------------------------- http://www.jfkresearch.com/forum/index.php?&act=ST&f=4&t=625&linear=1 JFKresearch Assassination Forum -> JFKresearch -> Photographic Evidence ----------------------------- Judyth --- GP/FLOOR, Bearing Oswald's CIA 201 file number... Sgt-At-Arms Posted: Nov 18 2003, 04:56 AM Forget Judyth Baker's BS -- In light of the big picture, we have plenty of hard evidence irrespective of the perceived lack of individual credibility. We have HARD evidence that was originated by the CIA and the FBI that even bear the LHO identifiers, such as [FBI] GP/FLOOR and/or [CIA] 201-289248. We are done here, folks. In my opinion, it's NOT about "CASE CLOSED" if we are talking about the flimsy case against Oswald. Rather, it is CASE DISMISSED, end of story--as far as OSWALD's guilt is concerned. (Although she is no longer a member...this is what I want to say, here, for the record) Judyth: I'm sorry, but we don't give a rat's ass about your love affair with whoever the hell you are referring to... I told you as much in person. You are relevant because you are a person, a human being, and YOU have worth that is totally independent of this "relationship" with whoever it was... I apologize if I sound harsh, as I am very sympathetic to your feelings. But it is the state of affairs with which we and you must come to terms. In the final analysis "your feelings" for the man are completely IRRELEVANT to this subject outside the confines of your own mind. You are drawing erroneous conclusions that are highly dubious in inception, dangerously wreckless, irresponsibly delivered, incredibly timed, and so far beyond your scope, as to be dismissable on their face! That you appear to mix TRUTH with fabrication bears the signature, in all candor, of disinformation. You might want to consider being the one who edits (scripts) your own account of the events you report, rather than relying upon a third party, such as Arlen Specter, LBJ, Brittney Spears--or more precisely, SHACKELFORD and RUSSO!!! --Have you lost your fucking mind??? 'nuff said. On the other hand, I must relieve myself of any responsibility for your opening yourself up to ridicule as I advised IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS of what the most likely outcome would be if you pursued this course of action. Moreover, I will now relieve myself of all responsibility for the effect you had on this forum, as I NEVER even mentioned your name here or anywhere for over a year--after having met you and after having reveiwed your info--until you youself came and posted here, much to my chagrin. Finally, I regret that you were enabled to present your "tale" by riding on the credibility of those from whom you sought sanctuary. Right or wrong, critics may call Marina a spy--even a promiscuous spy...or worse. History will call you an opportunist who had nothing to gain by the fabrication beyond perpetuating a lie for the sake of a lost romance for which there exists no corroberation. A pity. You're not responsible, I know. But they who set you in motion shall pay dearly... And for a while longer so shall we all. Attached Image -------------------- _/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/_/ G. Burnham Sgt-At-Arms "It is difficult to abolish prejudice in those bereft of ideas. The more hatred is superficial, the more it runs deep..." --Farewell America, 1968 James Hepburn ---------------------------- ----------------------------- Thomas Fohne Posted: Nov 18 2003, 10:32 AM RE: Judyth --- GP/FLOOR Hey, Monk, It was good to see you in the last hour of the TMWKK-The Final chapter on the History Channel last night. My comment on Judyth V. Baker is that she raised many more questions than she answered last night, and wouldn't it be nice to see just one picture of her and Oswald together to verify their knowing one another. I did find her statements about her phone conversations with LHO in the last week interesting but needing further substantiation. She also mentioned that there were three people trying to stop the assassination including LHO. Why not give us the names of the other two individuals instead of leaving us dangling in the wind. The 1st hour of this three part series certainly was a pleasant surprise for me to see so many of our forum members finally given a chance to speak the truth about JFK's murder. Jim Fetzer, Vince P., Connie K., Doug Weldon, all should be praised for their fine presentations. Seeing all these members certainly gives credence to this website being the best of all the JFK assassination forums-congratulations Rich and Shelby. Don't forget if you missed the program last night, it's airing again Friday evening at the same prime time. Tom ---------------------------- ----------------------------- David Healy Posted: Nov 18 2003, 01:41 PM RE: Judyth --- GP/FLOOR I concur with Tom 100%! Was great seeing a few from our side speaking out -- appears these will be the only show's that the CT message ... Nice to see you Greg, putting the gloves on once in a while! DavidH ----------------------------