#: 505885 S7/JFK Debate  [POLITICS]
    19-Mar-96  15:15:25
Sb: Prouty Critique # 14
Fm: D.T. FUHRMANN 71301,527
To: ALL

According to Mr. Prouty: "Even the distinction between "us" and "them" and
between "freind" and "foe" would have to be created arbitrarily.  This
clearly suggests that without the intervention of the "power elite" cabal,
there would have been no emnity and no disagreement between the West and
the Russians.  Is this an accurate reading of the history of the
mid-1940s?  Of Stalinist Russia? 

Have I got this right?  Stalin was just a nice guy who fully intended to
live up to his agreements about free elections in Poland and the rest of
Eastern Europe?  The Russians were not actively engaged in espionage
against the British and the US, and were not actively subverting socialist
and communist movements in France, Italy, and Britain in the hope of
bringing all of Europe under the Kremlin's control?  All of the conflict
between the US and Russia was created by a calculated design, planned and
implemented by a secretive, unidentified "cabal" operating completely
behind the scenes. Never, in anything written thus far, does Mr. Prouty
make any effort to examine or even mention the actions of the Soviets
during this crucial period.  It is apprently irrelevant to the issue of a
high cabal plot. Anyone interested in further information on the origins
of the Cols War, as I was, is recommended to Randall Woods and Howard
Jones, "Dawning of the Cold War," Elephant Paperbacks/Univ of Georgia
press, 1994. 

On page 44, Mr. Prouty again refers to the alleged arms shipments to Korea
and Vietnam from Okinawa in September 1945.  This event is now simply
presented as fact, though the ONLY source for this remains Mr. Prouty
himself.....and I can find nothing else to corroborate or lend credence to
his assertion. Moving on to a discussion of Ho Chi Minh's September 2,
1945, declaration of Vietnam's Independence: other than the repeated
assertion of "US support in the form of a vast shipment of arms," and the
undocumented asssertion that the OSS "continued to work" with the Viet
Minh (which is an overstatement of OSS involvement during August and
September of 1945), there is nothing particularly new or unusual here. 
Anyone looking for more detailed and documented sources of information on
these events, however, would do well to check out the following: 

1. David G. Marr, "Vietnam: 1945," a massive and relentlessly documented
history of events in Indochina in 1945, relying on French, American, and
Vietnamese sources; written by a widely respected Australian scholar. 

2. "Foreign Relations of the United States: 1945, Vol VII, The Far
East/China," US GPO, 1969. A collection of documents mostly related to
relations with China but also including useful material on Indochina.
Since Mr. Prouty has given this material his blessing, by using it in
footnotes, as well as recommending it to at least one forum member, it can
be considered a "trustworthy" source. <g>

3. Archimedes Patti, "Why Vietnam: Prelude to America's Albatross," Univ
of Calif Press, 1980. Patti was present in Hanoi at the time, and unlike
Mr. Prouty, was a direct eyewitness to events there. Clearly not an
acceptable source since Mr. Patti, though an eyewitness, was also a member
of that most evil of organizations, the OSS. 

4. Peter M. Dunn, "The First Vietnam War," C. Hurst & Co, 1985.  A British
history of events in Indochina in 1945, by a Brit. 

5. Lucien Bodard, "The Quicksand War: Prelude to Vietnam," Little Brown &
Co, 1967. A French perspective on events during the 1940s and early 1950s. 

6. Ronald Spector, "Advice and Supprt: The US Army in Vietnam, the Ealy
Years, 1941-1960," USGPO, Center for Military History, 1983.  Thoroughly
documented, well-researched, extremely detailed study of the early years
of US involvement. 

7.Jean Sainteny, "Histoire d'une paix manquee: Indochine, 1945-1947,"
Fayard, Paris, 1953, and "Ho Chi Minh and His Vietnam: A Personal Memoir,"
Cowles Book Co, Chicago, 1972. Sainteny was head of the French team that
entered Hanoi with the OSS and was personally present during the events of
in Hanoi during August/September 1945. 

I would also suggest the Pentagon Papers, but I've been informed that the
failure of the DoD authors to include reference to Kennedy's assassination
in one of the brief chronologies that are found in several sections of
that 12 volume work raises serious doubt about its usefulness or
trustworthiness as an historical source.  Take it for what it's worth. 

Again and again, we have the assertion that the threat of the Soviet Union
and "Communism" was created by the "power elite."  All the work of the
mysterious high cabal. Supporting evidence or references?  None.  Any
sense that Stalin and the Kremlin were independent actors in the emergence
of the Cold War? No. Any effort to review or even reference the voluminous
material on the origins of the Cold War.  No. 

On page 45 Mr. Prouty again refers to "when the ships sailed from Okinawa
bound with an enormous supply of arms for Korea and Vietnam." I still
cannot find anything which might corroborate this, but if it is repeated
enough times with assertiveness maybe people will accept it as fact. Mr.
Prouty also declares that "when the Declaration of Independence of the new
Democratic Republic of Vietnam was signed by Ho Chi Minh in Hanoi," there
were American officials at his side.  In Mr. Prouty's words "this could
hardly have been a coincidence.  World events are planned." (Page 45). 
Not accidental, no random factors or events or circumstances.  History is
controlled by a human hand, which is (if you think about it) a reassuring
thought, for it implies that SOMEONE is in charge and if only we can get
them out and someone more to our liking in, everything will be just fine). 

However, with reference to American officials being at Ho Chi Minh's side
in Hanoi, in fact the head of the OSS team declined an invitation to stand
on the dias, joining other local dignitaries and observers of the
ceremony. [Source: David Marr, "Vietnam: 1945," p 538.] Moreover, none of
the histories I consulted on these events mentions any signing ceremony,
nor do they describe any point during the Independence ceremonies in Hanoi
on Sept 2, 1945, when OSS personnel were active participants in those
ceremonies. Mr. Prouty does not claim to have been personally present at
those events, so what is the source of his information?  He doesn't say. 
Coincidence? Hardly. 

continued in # 15......