Executive session testimony before the House Select Committee on Assassinations. EXECUTIVE SESSION WEDNESDAY, APRIL 12, 1978

U.S. House of Representatives, Subcommittee on the Assassination of John F. Kennedy of the Select Committee on Assassinations, Washington, D.C. The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 8:15 a.m. in room 1310, Longworth House Office Building, Hon. Richard- son Preyer (Chairman of the Subcommittee) presiding. Present:. Representatives Preyer, Dodd, Fithian and Sawyer. Also present: E. Berning, R. Morrison, G. Gonzi, J. Wolf, M. Flanagan, A. Purdy, J. Hornbeck, I.C. Mathews, G. Cornell, W. Cross, H. Leap, M. Wills, D. Hardway, R. Genzman and C. Berk.
Mr. PREYER - The Committee will come to order. The Chair recognizes the Clerk of the Committee to read into the record those members who are officially designated to be on the Committee this morning. The Clerk. Mr. Chairman, you, Mr. Thone, Mr. Sawyer and Mr. Dodd are regular members; Mr. Fithian will be substituting for Mrs. Burke.
Mr. PREYER - Pursuant to yesterday's order, this will be a closed meeting. If the witness, Mr. McKeown and his attorney would come forward at this time, I would ask the attorney for Mr. McKeown if he would state his name for the record, please.
Mr. APPEL - Mr. Chairman, my name is Kevin Appel, a member of the Virginia Bar. I have been asked to represent Mr. McKeown by Mark Lane, who is Mr. McKeown's attorney.
Mr. PREYER - Very well. Is the witness prepared to be sworn to testify at this time.
Mr. APPEL - I would like to make a statement, if I may.
Mr. PREYER - You are recognized at this time. Mr. Appel. Thank you. Mr. Lane, who is Mr. McKeown's attorney is unable to appear at this time. This fact has been made known to Chief Counsel's office by Mr. Lane's staff several-times over the course of this past week. Mr. Lane has repeated a request that Mr. McKeown's appearance before the Committee be rescheduled. The Committee has, however, refused to reschedule the appearance of this witness. In doing so, it deprives him of right to counsel of his choice. Mr. McKeown is willing to testify but does not want to do so without the counsel of choice. Mr. Lane is familiar with the witness. He is familiar with the facts that he will be asked to relate in his testimony and Mr. McKeown feels that his rights will not be adequately protected without Mr. Lane's presence. I have been called in at the last minute. I am not familiar with the witness or with the matters that he will be talking about. It is our feeling that his right against self-incrimination will not be protected. I will ask the Committee if, at all possible, to please reschedule the appearance of this witness. Mr. Lane has assured me that he could appear at almost any time. He could not make it today, he had another commitment that he could not get out of. He is willing to come from Los Angeles at any time that the Committee wants and Mr. McKeown will testify, with Mr. Lane's presence, at any time.
Mr. PREYER - I will recognize counsel for the staff for any comments he may have on that.
Mr. PURDY - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the witness was subpoenaed on February 14, 1978 to appear on March 14th of this year. At that time, he was fully interviewed by our staff and, I might add, cooperated fully with the questioning. Subsequently, the hearing was continued until today. Mr. Lane has attemted to change the hearing date to April 17th. This request was first made on March 27th. Since March 27th, there have been frequent communications between Mr. Lane and this staff wherein it was indicated that attempts would be made to change the appearance date, but that Mr. Lane should be prepared to appear with his client or make appropriate arrangements to the contrary. At no time was Mr. Lane told that this hearing would be changed and he has, at all times, been told that the hearing was scheduled for the 12th. In addition, Mr. Chairman, the Committee is prepared, the staff is prepared to recommend that the witness be immunized and the appropriate orders are at hand. Therefore, it is our contention that the witness cannot incriminate himself in any way and his attorney, Mr. Appel, will be present to deal with any objections that we feel he is perfectly competent to take care of. Therefore, we feel that there can be no objection to his client's testifying at this time and it is the recommendation of counsel that a continuance not be granted.
Mr. PREYER - I think the objection is well taken. This is not exactly like a court proceeding. For one thing, this committee has a deadline by which time We have to finish this proceeding. It is not like a court which just goes on year after year.
Mr. APPEL - If I may make another comment, please, also recently Mr. McKeown has received a threatening phone call which has made him very apprehensive. I am not familiar enough with the facts to counsel him about what he says. He is nervous about what he says. Mr. Lane has more familiarity with the witness and with what he will say and the witness would be much more at ease with Mr. Lane present. As I say, Mr. Lane is willing to reschedule for any time that he can appear. Today was just a very bad day. He has very pressing business that could not be changed, so I again ask if at all possible that we change the scheduled hearing.
Mr. PREYER - I will say to Mr. McKeown that he has nothing to fear from this Committee. This is an Executive Session. His testimony will not be known to anyone. It is not as if he is being charged with any kind of a criminal charge, or anything of that sort. He is not. We are simply seeking information from him and we are prepared to immunize him so that there could be no possible criminal fall-out. So I do not see that there is any danger to Mr. McKeown, to his rights at this time, because this has been known for weeks and the hearing was set at this time. Our schedule is so tight, I think we would have to go forward. Mr. Fithian?
Mr. FITHIAN - Mr.. Chairman, I request that counsel -- I request to ask counsel. I understand that, in the original appearance request to appear before the Committee that there was an earlier date and, for convenience of counsel, it was shifted until today.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. Fithian, the counsel for Mr. McKeown, Mr. Lane, contacted Chairman Stokes by letter on March loth to request an open hearing and expense money. This was for a hearing scheduled for March 14th. The Committee considered these requests on March 13th, the day before the hearing was scheduled and it was for that reason, because of the scheduling of the March 13th hearing, to consider those requests, that the hearing was postponed until April 12th.
Mr. FITHIAN - So it has been postponed once for a one month period?
Mr. PURDY - Yes.
Mr. FITHIAN - Mr. Chairman, it would seem to me that, while attorney schedules are busy I am sure, that having already post- poned this hearing for one month that the Committee would be ill-advised to make an additional postponement.
Mr. PREYER - Thank you, Mr. Fithian. The Chair will deny the motion for a continuance at this time and will ask the witness if he would stand and be sworn at this time. Do you solemnly swear that the evidence that you are about to give the Subcommittee will he the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PREYER - Thank you, Mr. McKeown. I believe the witness has been given a copy of the Rules of this Committee. At this time, I will give a brief state- ment concerning the subject of the investigation. House Resolution 222 mandates the Committee to conduct a full and complete investigation and study of the circum- stances surrounding the assassination and death of John F. Kennedy, including the existing laws of the United States concerning the protection of the President, and investigatory jurisdiction and capability of agencies and departments are adequate in thier provisions of enforcement, whether there was full disclosure of evidence and information among agencies and departments of the United States government, and whether any evidence or information not in the possessior of the agency or department would have been of assistance in investigating the assassination and why such information was not provided or collected By that agency or department; and to make recommendations to the House if the Select Committee deems it appropriate, of amendment of existing legislation or the enactment of new legislation. The Chair recognizes Mr. Purdy to begin the questioning of the witness.
Mr. PURDY - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the first line of inquiry will be related to Mr. McKeown's connections and contacts with Jack Ruby. 44-105-956 TESTIMONY OF ROBERT RAY MCKEOWN
Mr. PURDY - Mr. McKeown, please state your full name?
Mr. McKEOWN - Robert Ray McKeown.
Mr. PURDY - Please state your date of birth and place of birth.
Mr. McKEOWN - January 28, 1911, Houston, Texas.
Mr. PURDY - What is your present address?
Mr. McKEOWN - 1203 Southwest 30th Court, Miami, Florida.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. McKeown, when did you first meet Jack Ruby?
Mr. McKEOWN - I refuse to answer on the grounds that it may incriminate me.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. Chairman, I request now at this time that the Chair direct the order of immunity to the witness.
Mr. PREYER - The Chair will ask counsel to give the witness a copy of the order of immunity, which I understand you have obtained.
Mr. PURDY - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. The Clerk. This will be marked Exhibit 92. {The document referred to was marked JFK Exhibit No, 92 and will be found in the files of the Subcommittee. ) (Pause) 006736

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA In the Matter of the Application of UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Misc. No. 78-0095 SELECT COMMITTEE ON ASSASSINATIONS FILED MAR 28 1978

James E. Davey, Clerk

ORDER CONFERRING IMMUNITY UPON AND COMPELLING TESTIMONY FROM ROBERT RAY McKEOWN

The United States House of Representatives Select Committee on Assassinations having made written application, pursuant to Title 18, United States Code, Sections 6002 and 6005, to in order conferring immunity upon Robert Ray McKeown and compelling him to testify and provide other information before the Subcommittee on the assassination of John F. Kennedy of the Select Committee on Assassinations, and the court finding that all procedures specified by S 6005 have been duly followed, it is hereby, this 28th day of March 1978, ORDERED, that Robert Ray McKeown in accordance with the provisions of Title 18, United States Code, Sections 6002 and 6005, shall not be excused from testifying or providing other information before the Subcommittee on the Assassination of John F. Kennedy of the Select Committee on Assassinations on the grounds that the testimony or other information sought may tend to incriminate him. ORDERED FURTHER, that Robert Ray McKeown appear when subpoenaed by said Subcommittee and testify and provide such other information that is sought with respect to matters under inquiry by said Subcommittee. AND IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that no testimony or other information compelled under this order (or any information directly or indirectly derived from such testimony or other information) maybe used against Robert Ray McKeown in any criminal case, except a prosecution for perjury, giving a false statement or otherwise failing to comply with this ORDER.

_____________________________

United States District Judge

Dated: March 28, 1978
Mr. APPEL - I assume ---- I am not familiar with grants of immunity. I assume that the statutory provisions have been followed in this order and that there was proper notice and the Attorney General notified?
Mr. PREYER - Counsel?
Mr. PURDY - All proper steps, including notification of the Justice Department, were complied with.
Mr. PREYER - Thank you. The Chair now directs the witness to answer the question in light of the immunity that has been conferred on him.
Mr. McKEOWN - Would you repeat the question?
Mr. PURDY - Yes, Mr. McKeown. When did you first meet Jack Ruby?
Mr. McKEOWN - Well, can I tell it in my own words, how came about to meet him?
Mr. PURDY - Please do, Mr. McKeown. If we have any questions, we can follow up.
Mr. McKEOWN - Well, at the time, I was running a lounge in Texas and the Sheriff's Department came to my place and told me that there was somebody trying to get ahold of me from Dallas, Texas and would it he all right if the Sheriff's Department would give him my number there. So I said, hell, I do not know anybody from Dallas, Texas, so I said yes, it is all right, go ahead and give him the number. So I would venture to say that, maybe twenty, thirty minutes -- I do not know exactly how long, but the phone rang and I answered it and it was a gentleman on the phone who said my name is Jack Rubinstein -- he did not say Ruby. He says, I would sure like to come down there and have a talk with you. I said, what is this all about? He said, well, I understand that you have connections that would benefit me, and I would like to come down. And I said, well, I guess it is all right. Come on down. So I would venture to say -- this has been quite awhile ago, I guess you can understand that. I would venture to say maybe two days that this gentleman walked in and he was a pretty well-dressed guy, hag a hat on and everything, and he introduced himself to me and told me his name was Rubinstein. He says, I am the one who talked to you on the phone. He said, is there any way that we can talk? I said yes. If you want to talk, what do you want to talk about? So he told me, he says, I would like -- I may be getting ahead of my story; it has been a long time. Of course, we talked a little bit about this and that and he said, I understand that you are a very good friend of Castro. I said, I do not know, that has been sometime back. I am out of that mess now, and I do not want to get too much involved in it any more. He says, I wonder if you would give me a letter of introduction to Castro? I says, I do not know. I do not know you. I asked him, are you Jewish, and he said 'yes. I said, well, I know you are not Spanish. So anyway, it would certainly be worth your while if you would give me this letter, a nice letter telling them that I am a friend of yours and I am a good friend and have been knowing you a long time. I said, well, that would be a damned lie. I just met you thirty minutes ago. I do not know you. So he says, I will give you $25,000 if you will write me this letter where you will acknowledge that I am a friend of yours and have done business with you and things of that sort. Do you understand? So I said, well, Jesus Christ. $25,000 is a lot of money. I said, where are you going to get that kind of money. He said, I have have connections; I can. get it. As a matter of fact, I thought he was full of baloney. Anyway, I did write the letter and I says, I will tell you what. I will give you this letter, but you give me $10,000 to show you that this letter will get you to see Castro and then meanwhile, I will call Castro and tell him you are coming. But you give me $10,000 now and I will give you the letter. He says, well, I do not have that right on me right now. I do not have that much money, but I will be back either this afternoon or in the morning, and he wanted to read the letter; I would not let him read it. Sure enough, he did come back the next day -- not the next day, but two or three different times he came back, but he never did, get the letter. I never did give him the letter, because he never did give me any money. But in the meantime, we would talk about things and he commenced telling me that he had a whole lot of jeeps, a whole lot of slot machines and he had access to this and all of this. He had good connections. I said that is beside the point. I do not think that Castro is going to have, gambling over there to begin with. But he kept coming back, you know, and we would talk and drink a beer together. He impressed me -- I do not know exactly how to say it because ladies are present, because he impressed me as a big bunch of b.s. in my opinion. That is just my opinion. He wanted to act like he was a big shot, but it did not impress me any. But the only thing I can figure is that he was trying to find out from me my activities and things of that sort, how well I knew Castro. He wanted to find out where I lived, how I got involed and all of this and all of that. But I did not tell him. He left about the fourth day he came down. He came down about four times and he left and I never heard from him since.
Mr. PURDY - I realize that it has been a long time but I would like to ask you a few follow-up questions about the call and the series of visits. Could you pinpoint for us what year the phonecall was?
Mr. McKEOWN - Well, I imagine that it was around '61, but I am not positive. I know it was not very cold. I imagine around August, or something like that. I really do not know, to be frank with you. I had it all this wrote down but my house burned up and burned everything I had up, everything. As a matter of fact, I was lucky to, get out of the house and I had an investigator investigate how come my house was burned up, and they told me that somebody set it on fire. I lost everything. I' got out of there with a pair of shorts.
Mr. PURDY - Do you have any time reference for when the call came? Was it a long time after Castro took over, or a short time? Do you remember that? Mr. McKeown, More or less a short time, because it was all in the papers. I should have brought that with me. I brought it down here, but I have all of the papers, the newspaper clippings and everything, but I left it in the room. You know, you can tell from the date about what time that all happened.
Mr. PURDY - Could we obtain copies of the papers from you after the hearing?
Mr. McKEOWN - Sir?
Mr. PURDY - Could we obtain copies of those papers after the hearing?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes, they are at the hotel. You know, the papers probably have the date on them. But it was after that, you see. That is the reason,, I imagine, that he contacted me because he read all of this paper business, you know.
Mr. PURDY - Do you remember what it was in the newspapers that he read about you? Mr. McKeown, Well, I was working, I was associated with Carlos Prio. I was getting guns into Castro.
Mr. PURDY - So there was publicity about that?
Mr. McKEOWN - So I got caught, you understand, and then the publicity came out.
Mr. PURDY - When you were arrested for running guns, that was in 1958, is that correct?
Mr. McKEOWN - I think So, '58 or '59. I was not arrested, I gave myself up.
Mr. PURDY - You gave yourself up, the records indicate, on February 25th, 1958, is that correct?
Mr. McKEOWN - Somewhere around there, yes, sir.
Mr. PURDY - Do you recall talking with the FBI about these facts on January 28th, 1964?
Mr. McKEOWN - What?
Mr. PURDY - Do you recall being interviewed by the FBI in January, 1964?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - At that time you indicated that the telephone call from a man you said who was Jack Rubinstein came approximately one week after Castro assumed power. Is that your present recollection?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - Do you recall that Castro came to power 15, January 1, 1959? Mr. McKeown, Yes.
Mr. PURDY - That would put your phonecall approximately a week after that, early in January, 1959. Is that your present recollection?
Mr. McKEOWN - It was right after Castro took power, maybe a week or ten days or something. I really do not know.
Mr. PURDY - This morning you said that the man who called you said that you might be able to do something for his benefit. Did he add any other details as to what you might he able to do?
Mr. McKEOWN - He said he would like to sell Castro a lot of jeeps and slot machines. That is what he said, and he wanted to meet Castro, he wanted to go over there and meet him.
Mr. PURDY - Limiting this just to the phone call, not to the visit, did he discuss the jeeps and slot machines during the phone call?
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. PURDY - What did he discuss during the phone call?
Mr. McKEOWN - Like I told you, he just said that he would like to come down and talk to me and I told him that was all right with me if he wanted to come down.
Mr. PURDY - In the telephone call, did he request your assistance in obtaining the release of three people from Cuba?
Mr. McKEOWN - He said he had some friends over there that he would like to help get out if I could help him get them out.
Mr. PURDY - Did he say who they were?
Mr. McKEOWN - Did you have any idea who he was talking about?
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. PURDY - You say you had known Castro very well is that correct?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - Approximately a week after Castro assumed power, were many people imprisoned?
Mr. McKEOWN - Imprisoned in Cuba or here?
Mr. PURDY - Imprisoned in Cuba. Did he imprison a number of people when he took power?
Mr. McKEOWN - You know as much about it as I do. You read the papers where he did, yes. Mr. Purdy, Do you have a present recollection as to whether he imprisoned people shortly after taking power or later, months later?
Mr. McKEOWN - Well, I presume he imprisoned them practically right away.
Mr. PURDY - Do you know what types of people he imprisoned after taking power? Were they political figures, were they gamblers, were they Cubans? Americans?
Mr. APPEL - Is this line of questioning, pertinent?
Mr. McKEOWN - Why go through all of this? I am here testify about Oswald and Jack Ruby and all of that Castro business-- I have all of that behind me and I want to leave it behind me.
Mr. APPEL - I have to object.
Mr. PURDY - This line of questioning is intended to gain any information possible about the types of people that Jack Ruby may have been trying to obtain the release of from Cuban jails on behalf of some other interests, as well as to pinpoint more accurately the time frame when Jack Ruby would have been making those inquiries, because it is unclear whether or not people were imprisoned shortly after the Castro takeover, or later on. For that reason, Counsel contends that this line of questioning is relevant, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. PREYER - I think it is pertinent to seek to develop information relating to who might have been imprisoned. If the witness knows the answer to this question, the Chair thinks it would be pertinent to answer.
Mr. APPEL - Would you repeat the question?
Mr. PURDY - Mr. McKeown, let me rephrase the question. Do you have any information about the general types of people imprisoned or specific individuals imprisoned after Castro took power?
Mr. McKEOWN - Do I know any of them?
Mr. PURDY - Yes.
Mr. McKEOWN - No. I did not know any of them personally. I heard of them.
Mr. PURDY - Do you recall the names of anybody you heard was in prison in Cuba?
Mr. McKEOWN - There was a friend who came from Costa Rica and I understood that he was in Jail. His name was Hernandez.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. McKeown, did Mr. Rubinstein, in the phonecall, offer you any money for obtaining the release of individuals?
Mr. McKEOWN - No, not in the phone call.
Mr. PURDY - How many individuals did he ask that you obtain the release of?
Mr. McKEOWN - Three. He said he had three friends over there.
Mr. PURDY - Did Mr. Rubinstein indicate that he was working for anybody else when he was trying to obtain the release of these people?
Mr. McKEOWN - He emphasized, when I asked him about this money, you know, I told him that is a hell of a lot of money, but he said, I have good connections so money does not mean anything,
Mr. PURDY - This was money in regard to obtaining the release of people or the letter?
Mr. McKEOWN - To give him the letter. If I would give him the letter of introduction to Castro, he offered me that money, but I never did get it. He never did get the letter.
Mr. PURDY - Did you tell the FBI on January 28, 1964 that Mr. Rubinstein, in the phonecall, offered you $5,000 for the release of each of three prisoners? Mr. McKeow. Well, he said something on the phone, he said, I, got some friends over in Cuba, but as I recall now, he might have offered me some money on the phone, hut I do not believe he did. It seems as though the only time he offered me money was to get the letter. He might have said something, but I did not talk to him very long on the phone. The only thing he wanted me to do, to get from me, was it all right for him to come down there from Dallas to talk to me. That was the main thing that he wanted to talk to me about.
Mr. PURDY - Approximately how much time passed after the phonecall when he came to visit you?
Mr. McKEOWN - A couple or three days.
Mr. PURDY - He came to visit you a few days after the phone call?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - You stated earlier this morning that the man who came to see you identified himself as Jack Rubinstein, is that correct?
Mr. McKEOWN - Rubinstein.
Mr. PURDY - In your interview with the FBI on January 28th, 1964, did you tell him that the man who came to visit you did not identify himself?
Mr. McKEOWN - No, not as I recall. Did not identify himself?
Mr. PURDY - Yes.
Mr. McKEOWN - I do not recall what I said to the FBI. I just told them that he came to see me.
Mr. PURDY - Is it your present recollection that the man who came to see you, identified himself as Jack Rubinstein?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - Could you please give you a physica/description of the man who came to visit you?
Mr. McKEOWN - Well, he was a little hit stout and he had a little patch on his nose at the time, a little round patch. I asked him what happened, he said he squeezed a blackhead and it, got infected. He had a black hat on and he was well-dressed. Kind of a stocky sort of fellow, not tall. I would venture to say he weighed 165, 180 pounds. I really do not know. Just average. Well-dressed. He wore a hat, I know that.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. McKeown, did you tell the FBI on January 28, 1964 that the reason that you knew the man who came to see you was Jack Rubinstein was because you recognized him from photographs that you saw at the time of the assassination?
Mr. McKEOWN - I want to tell you something. I think I went to talk to the FBI before the assassination and then after-the assassination, both. I just told the FBI that Jack Rubinstein, like I am telling you, called me on the phone and he came down there to see me and he wanted this letter.
Mr. PURDY - Did you talk to the FBI about Jack Rubinstein before the assassination?
Mr. McKEOWN - It seems as though I did, yes.
Mr. PURDY - Approximately how long before the assassination did you did you talk with the FBI?
Mr. McKEOWN - Right after Castro took over, you see? I think Castro took over in '58, did he not?
Mr. PURDY - He took over January 21, 1959.
Mr. McKEOWN - '59. It was a little bit after that that he came to see me.
Mr. PURDY - Did you talk to the FBI about Jack Rubinstein before the assassination?
Mr. McKEOWN - Well, it seems as though I did. You see, I was on probation. I was on five-year probation and was scared, because I did not want to get in no trouble. So I believe I went and told them about this guy coming to see me, up in the Post Office Building in Houston. I am pretty sure I did. They told me that that was very good information. But, you see, right after the president was assassinated -- as a matter of fact, I was working for the Houston Slush pump Company. I was a salesman, a sales represtative, this lady, she owned this company and her and I was going to eat dinner, to eat lunch, and the bookkeeper --- is it all right to tell you in my own words how this happened? We wanted to get some chicken and we were going to get some Mexican food at a Mexican restaurant, so he asked us to bring some chicken back for him. So I went into this care to order the chicken and then tell them I would pick it up on the way back end that is when I heard that the President had been shot. So I come on back to the car and I said, turn the radio on. The President has been shot. So she turned the radio on and we didn't go nowhere. We went back to the office and listened to the broadcasts on the radio. The next day, the FBI was out and I went up there and talked to them about Jack Ruby.
Mr. PURDY - Is that the first time that you talked to the FBI about Jack Rubinstein?
Mr. McKEOWN - I think it was, then again, maybe it was not. It has-been a long time. I have been through a lot of hell since then.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. McKeown, where were you when Lee Harvey Oswald was shot?
Mr. McKEOWN - I was watching my television in St. Leon, Texas.
Mr. PURDY - Did you recognize the name of the individual who shot Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - Did you recognize his name as Jack Ruby? Did you assume that was Jack Rubinstein?
Mr. McKEOWN - I recognized him as the man who had come to see me.
Mr. PURDY - You recognized his photograph?
Mr. McKEOWN - On the television.
Mr. PURDY - After Mr. Oswald was shot, did you tell anyone that you had known Jack Rubinstein?
Mr. McKEOWN - I did not have to tell them. You know, things like that get around. This particular fellow who was living there with me -- I had married this lady, she was a schoolteacher and she did not know that I was in all of this mess. I was on probation at the time. So I was trying to hold it away from her, but of course you know them things get out. But, anyway, Sam Neal was there and he left so I told Pauline, I said, I am going to turn the television on. I seen it when he killed him. And then Sam called right after that and we went down to somewhere, I do not know where. He called me up and the son-of-a-bitch who was at your house, that is the guy who was at your house talking about Oswald. And I said, it sure is.
Mr. PURDY - Did you tell anyone, after the shooting of Oswald, that you knew Jack Rubinstein?
Mr. McKEOWN - I did not know Jack Rubinstein. I did not know him, like I don't know you. I am talking to you now, but I don't know you. The same with Jack Rubinstein. I did not know him. The only thing he came to me -- I had never seen the man in my life before; I had never heard of him.
Mr. PURDY - Did you tell anybody that you had met him prior to the time that you talked to the FBI?
Mr. McKEOWN - That I met Jack Ruby? Yes, I told a few people that he came to see me, after this happened.
Mr. PURDY - Did you tell anybody besides Sam Neal that you had met Lee Harvey Oswald after the assassination?
Mr. McKEOWN - Sam Neal was there when Lee Harvey Oswald came out of the house.
Mr. PURDY - Did you tell anybody else that you had met Lee Harvey Oswald after the assassination?
Mr. McKEOWN - I guess so.. I told a few people.
Mr. PURDY - You stated earlier that Mr. Rubinstein who visited you said he was interested in transporting jeeps and slot machines to Cuba?
Mr. McKEOWN - Right. That was his subject. More or less, he wanted this letter more than anything else. Mr. Purdy, Did he Say that he had possession of jeeps and slot machines?
Mr. McKEOWN - Right. He said he had them out in Nevada in the mountains somewhere, out in a cave. That is what he told me.
Mr. PURDY - Did Mr. Rubinstein say that he knew any Mafia or Organized crime figures that were associated with Cuba?
Mr. McKEOWN - He said he knew the Mafia. He did not say anything about associating with Cuba.
Mr. PURDY - Did he tell you any of those individuals?
Mr. McKEOWN - NO, he did not tell me any names
Mr. PURDY - Did he say that he was working for those Mafia figures in those transactions?
Mr. McKEOWN - No, he said he had connections. When I asked him about the money he said you do not need to worry about the money, I have good connections. Money does not mean nothing.
Mr. PURDY - Did he mention any connections with Miami?
Mr. McKEOWN - He wanted to know. if I knew anybody in Miami. He just wanted to know how well I was acquainted in Miami. I said I go there quite often. I know a few Cubans.
Mr. PURDY - Did he mention the Clover Club or the Ponce Room in Miami?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - Why did he mention those to you?
Mr. McKEOWN - He asked me, are you familiar with the Ponce Club. That was behind the Clover. In them days, that is where the Latins congregated, in the Ponce Club, do you understand? And he asked me if I had ever been in there. I said, yes, I had been in there. That is about all there was to it. He just wanted to know if I knew where it was.
Mr. PURDY - Did he say that he had been there?
Mr. McKEOWN - Well, he did not exactly say that he had been there. He just wanted to know if I had been there.
Mr. PURDY - Did you get the impression that he had been there?
Mr. McKEOWN - I got the impression that he knew what he was talking about. He described the place pretty good. Mr. Purdy: Did you tell him that you knew people connected with the Ponce Room? Mr. McKeown, No. Mr. Purdy, Did he tell you that he knew individuals connected with the Ponce Club?
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. PURDY - When Mr. Rubinstein contacted you conserning the release of individuals from Cuban prisons, did he initially think that your name was Davis?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - What did he think that your first name was?
Mr. McKEOWN - I do not know, but he got me mixed up with a fellow named Davis Over in Beaumont. Hell, I did not know anybody named Davis.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. McKeown, you stated earlier that Rubinstein contacted you because of news accounts of your connections with Cuba, is that correct?
Mr. McKEOWN - That is the only way I know. He called the Sheriff's Department. I was living about 35 miles or so. I was in the county, I was not in the city of Houston. I was in a little place called Seabrook. I had bought a house down there and then I had bought this acre of land and I had built a little shopping center there. The. money was furnished to build this shopping center, and I think I was waiting for the trial.
Mr. PURDY - Did Mr. Rubinstein indicate that he had talked to anyone who knew you prior to his call to you?
Mr. McKEOWN - The only way I can answer that is to tell you that he told me, he said, you are well-known. You are well-known all over the state of Texas. I have seen your picture in the paper in Mexico City.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. McKeown, can you explain how it was that Jack Rubinstein read about you by your name of McKeown and yet came to you and thought you were named Davis?
Mr. McKEOWN - I cannot understand that, no,
Mr. PURDY - Did you ask him why, he thought that you were named Davis?
Mr. McKEOWN - I have used a few names, but I never did use Davis.
Mr. PURDY - What were some of the other names you used?
Mr. McKEOWN - I used McAllister. I used Henry, things like that.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. McKeown, did Mr. Rubenstein say that he had seen your name and picture in Mexico City?
Mr. McKEOWN - Right; I said, well, that is news to me. I did not know that it was down there.
Mr. PURDY - Did he indicate to you what the storey-was in reference to?
Mr. McKEOWN - When they confiscated all these arms that I was caught with.
Mr. PURDY - What did Mr. Rubinstein say to you that indicated that he had mistaken you with a Davis from Beaumont, Texas?
Mr. McKEOWN - He told me that he thought that I was the one who was in Beaumont, Texas but now that he knew that I was not the same man.
Mr. PURDY - Did you know, or had you ever heard, of a Davis from Beaumont, Texas?
Mr. McKEOWN - No. I went to Beaumont, Texas a couple of times but I went over there to buy blankets. I bought a thousand blankets.
Mr. PURDY - Who did you buy a thousand blankets from?
Mr. McKEOWN - From a Ward Surplus, just a store there.
Mr. PURDY - Did you know, or had you heard of, any person named Davis connected with arms sales?
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. Chairman, I think it would be appropriate at this time for members of the Committee to ask any questions you might have related to Mr. McKeown's connection with Jack Ruby. Following that, I would pursue a line of questioning concerning his knowledge of some of Jack Ruby's other associates.
Mr. PREYER - Would you prefer that we proceed with the questioning?
Mr. FITHIAN - Whatever the Chair prefers. I may have one question to clarify.
Mr. PREYER - All right.
Mr. FITHIAN - Mr. McKeown, were the only contacts that you had with Jack Rubinstein that sequence of visits that he made to Texas? Was that the only time you personally contacted or were contacted by Jack Rubinstein when he came down to see you in Texas?
Mr. McKEOWN - That is the only time that I have ever seen him, when he came to my club. He came there four or five times.
Mr. FITHIAN - After that sequence?
Mr. McKEOWN - I never saw him before.
Mr. FITHIAN - He did not call you on the phone, you had no other contact?
Mr. McKEOWN - lie just dropped completely out of sight.
Mr. FITHIAN - No letters from him, no phone calls?
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. FITHIAN - Thank you.
Mr. PREYER - I would suggest to counsel that we might proceed at this time.
Mr. PURDY - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. McKeown, you said that there were a number of visits that Mr. Rubinstein came to you, is that correct?
Mr. McKEOWN - yes.
Mr. PURDY - Approximately how many visits?
Mr. McKEOWN - I would venture maybe four, at least four.
Mr. PURDY - What period of time elapsed between the first and the final visit?
Mr. McKEOWN - He came every day, you know what I mean? The first time he came from the phone call, and then he came. I do not know whether it was the next day. I know it was dark, around 8:00 or 9:00 when he called me on the phone, and I do not know Whether it. was the next day or the following day that he came. I did not know him when he walked in. I did not know him from Adam. Then he introduced himself to me.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. McKeown, how far is Seabrook, Texas from Dallas, Texas? Do you know?
Mr. McKEOWN - I would say about 300 miles.
Mr. PURDY - About 300 miles.
Mr. McKEOWN - Approximately, about 300.
Mr. PURDY - Was Mr. Rubinstein staying in Seabrook over this period of four days?
Mr. McKEOWN - No, he told me he was staying in town, in Houston.
Mr. PURDY - Did he say where he was staying?
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. PURDY - Did Mr. RubinStein mention any people whom you both knew? Mr. McKeown, Not that I recall. This is my own opinion about Jack Rubinstein. The only thing that I can figure -- what, is your name?
Mr. PURDY - Purdy.
Mr. McKEOWN - The only thing that I can figure, Mr. Purdy, is that he was trying to go and tell somebody else that he knew me real good. Do you understand? He kept asking me about my boyhood, my connections with Prio and how many times I had been to Cuba, all of this and all of that, and did I go under a nickname or anything like that. And you know, like I say, the only thing that I can figure about the whole damn thing is that he was trying to find out and go and tell people that he knew me real good, do you understand? He did not. I did not know him.
Mr. PURDY - Did he indicate to you that he had been to Cuba?
Mr. McKEOWN - No, he indicated that he wanted to, go to Cuba. He did not say anything about him being there.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. McKeown, during What period of time did you live or work in Cuba?
Mr. McKEOWN - Well, I had a business in Cuba. It was in Santiago, then I would go into Havana. It was a legitimate business, you know? Batista kept after me to pay off because I was doing a pretty. good business. I had invented a coffee cleaning machine. I was going to build over there. I had built the prototype in Houston, then I took ,it on over and then we were going to open up a place in Cuba to manufacture. Then Batista kept on after me to pay off, pay off -- not him, do not misunderstand me. He did not come himself, Batista didn't, but he sent his militia. So I told them to hell with it, I was going to pay nothing. I am a United States citizen. I am not paying you nothing. So it went on there for, about four, five or six months. Then four militias came out there and they put me on an airplane and told me to get out of Cuba and I got out.
Mr. PURDY - What was the time period that you left Cuba?
Mr. McKEOWN - What time was it?
Mr. PURDY - Yes.
Mr. McKEOWN - The daytime.
Mr. PURDY - What was the date and the year?
Mr. McKEOWN - It was around '57. I do not know what date it was.
Mr. PURDY - Did you return to live or work in Cuba after Castro took power?
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. PURDY - Was that because of your probation?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes. I tried to.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. McKeown?
Mr. McKEOWN - He tried to get me to go, he came to Houston. Castro came to Houston and he told me, come on, get on the airplane. I said no way, but I did go up and had a bearing with Judge Ingraham and. I had my probation officer who was of the name FIelds and he recommended to the Judge that I not, go to Cuba.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. McKeown, you stated today that Jack Rubinstein came to see you four times in 1959. Is that correct?
Mr. McKEOWN - I think so, Right after Castro took over.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. McKeown, did you tell the FBI on January 28, 1964 that Jack Rubinstein came to see you only one time?
Mr. McKEOWN - No, because I know that it came two orthree times.
Mr. PURDY - Does it refresh your recollection to know that the report by Special Agent Daniel Foltz of January 28, 1964 indicates that you told him that Jack Rubinstein came to visit you only one time?
Mr. McKEOWN - I do not know why I would tell him that, because he came two, three times. Maybe I was scared because, I was on probation, maybe I told him only once. I do not know . I am telling you the truth because I swore I would tell the truth, and he came to see me three or four times.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. McKeown, is your memory better now than when you had the FBI interview in 1964?
Mr. McKEOWN - What?
Mr. PURDY - Is your memory better now today than when you had the FBI interview in 1964?
Mr. McKEOWN - I do not know.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. McKeown, as everything you told the FBI in 1964 the truth?
Mr. McKEOWN - To the best of my recollection. The only thing I was trying to do was trying to help the government out. That was what I was trying to do. If he was involved in anything, I was just trying to help them out. I just wanted to tell them the truth. He asked to come see me, the man who murdered Lee Harvey Oswald.
Mr. PURDY - Did you tell the FBI on January 28, 1964 that the man who came to see you never returned, nor did you ever again see him, after the first visit?
Mr. McKEOWN - No, not after the first visit, because he came three or four times, like I told you.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. McKeown, were you in Dallas or New Orleans during 1963?
Mr. McKEOWN - Where?
Mr. PURDY - Dallas, Texas or New Orleans, Louisiana during 1963.
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. McKeown, did you know, or know of Mr. R. D. Mathews?
Mr. McKEOWN - Who?
Mr. PURDY - Mr. Russell Douglas Mathews.
Mr. McKEOWN - Never heard of him.
Mr. PURDY - Did Jack Ruby discuss him?
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. PURDY - Did you know, or have you heard of, Mr. Joseph Civello?
Mr. McKEOWN - Joseph who?
Mr. PURDY - Civello.
Mr. McKEOWN - Not as I recall.
Mr. PURDY - Did you know James Robert Todd?
Mr. McKEOWN - What did he do?
Mr. PURDY - He lived and worked in Dallas, Texas.
Mr. McKEOWN - NO.
Mr. PURDY - Did you know James Henry Dolan?
Mr. McKEOWN - What did he do?
Mr. PURDY - He worked for, the American Guild of Variety Artists in Dallas and he was a gambler.
Mr. McKEOWN - No, I did not know him. I heard of him, but I did not know him.
Mr. PURDY - Did Jack Ruby discuss him?
Mr. McKEOWN - No. He did not discuss any names. He just said he had connections that could get ahold of money.
Mr. PURDY - Did you know, or have you heard, of Mr. Jim Brady?
Mr. McKEOWN - What did he do?
Mr. PURDY - He also went by the name Eugene Hale Brady.
Mr. McKEOWN - Was he a pilot?
Mr. PURDY - No.
Mr. McKEOWN - No, I do not how.
Mr. PURDY - Do you know, or have you heard of, Messers. Sam or Joseph Campesi?
Mr. McKEOWN - I have heard of them.
Mr. PURDY - You never met them?
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. PURDY - Did you know Candy Barr?
Mr. McKEOWN - I have heard of her.
Mr. PURDY - You never met her?
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. PURDY - Do you recall how you heard of Candy Barr?
Mr. McKEOWN - Well, I had a friend and she was living down around El Campo, Texas. I do not recall the name of the town, just a small place, and he was a friend of hers and he told me that she was down there. That is all I know.
Mr. PURDY - How did you hear of the Campesis.
Mr. McKEOWN - What?
Mr. PURDY - How did you hear of Sam or Joseph Campesi?
Mr. McKEOWN - Through Prio.
Mr. PURDY - What did you say about that?
Mr. McKEOWN - He said they were good people, they were on our Side.
Mr. PURDY - Did he say that he was working with him?
Mr. McKEOWN - Well, I presumed that he was working with him I do not know. I was more or less a lone wolf. I did not implicate myself with all them people because I did what he told me to do and he furnished the money.
Mr. PURDY - Are you talking about Mr. Prio?
Mr. McKEOWN - Prio.
Mr. PURDY - Do you know whether or not they were also working for or with Mr. Prio?
Mr. McKEOWN - I presume, but I do not know for sure.
Mr. PURDY - Do you know any other Americans who were working for Mr. Prio?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - Who were they? (Pause)
Mr. McKEOWN - A very. good friend of mine. We did a lot of traveling together. His name was Manola Artuse. I am sorry to tell you this. There was another one named Mario, but I cannot recall his last name. He married a woman from Puerto Rico and I understand that he is in Cuba now. Whether he is nor not, I have not seen him since him and came here and met Prio.
Mr. PURDY - Do you know of anybody else who knows him?
Mr. McKEOWN - Who? Mr.Purdy. Mario?
Mr. McKEOWN - Manola.
Mr. PURDY - Does the name Maria Valamios sound familiar to you?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - Was that him?
Mr. McKEOWN - It might have been.
Mr. PURDY - Do you recall anybody else who was working with Mr. Prio at that time?
Mr. McKEOWN - Oh, hell, yes. I do not recall their names. A Spanish name is easy to forget, and I just knew them by their first name, more or less. Ralph, for instance.
Mr. PURDY - Pardon me?
Mr. McKEOWN - A gentleman by the name of Ralph. He was more or less Prio's bodyguard and a lady named Marie Serez. Manola was close to Prio, and Mario, and three or four others but hell, I do not remember their names.
Mr. PURDY - Did you know, or have you heard of, Joseph Marello?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - How did you know him?
Mr. McKEOWN - Through Manola.
Mr. PURDY - You knew him personally?
Mr. McKEOWN - Just to talk with.
Mr. PURDY - Did you work with him at all?
Mr. McKEOWN - No, I worked by myself.
Mr. PURDY - Are you aware of any particular assignments that he had from Mr. Prio?
Mr. McKEOWN - Who? Mr.Purdy. Mr. Marella.
Mr. McKEOWN - The only thing, he would come to me and tell me where things would be.
Mr. PURDY - What kind of things?
Mr. McKEOWN - Guns.
Mr. PURDY - He would tell you where to get guns?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - Did he tell you who was supplying those guns?
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. PURDY - Did you know, or have you heard of, Mr. Thomas Ely Davis III of Beaumont, Texas?
Mr. McKEOWN - I told you awhile ago I did not know anybody by the name of Davis.
Mr. PURDY - Did you know a Mr. Carl Davis of North Carolina?
Mr. McKEOWN - What?
Mr. PURDY - Did you know a Mr. Carl Davis Of North Carolina?
Mr. McKEOWN - Carl Davidson?
Mr. PURDY - Davis.
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. Chairman, I think it would be appropriate now if the Committee would like to ask any questions about Mr. McKeown's connections with Mr. Ruby. Following that, I will develop a line of questioning concerning Mr. McKeown's contacts with Mr. Oswald.
Mr. PREYER - I was not clear on your interview with the FBI shortly after the assassination.
Mr. McKEOWN - The next day.
Mr. PREYER -How did they happen to interview you?
Mr. McKEOWN - Sir?
Mr. PREYER -How did they happen to interview you?
Mr. McKEOWN - How did they happen?
Mr. PREYER -Yes.
Mr. McKEOWN - As I said, I was working with this pump company and they came to the office. They came out there.
Mr. PREYER - What made them come to the office? Had you made some statement?
Mr. McKEOWN - I do not know, but they sure came out there and I lost that job. Every job I got I lost because they would come out where I was working.
Mr. PREYER - You did not go to them as far ds you know? There was nothing about you in the paper that would have caused them to come and interview you?
Mr. McKEOWN - Not that I know of. There was nothing about me in the paper.
Mr. PREYER - Because of your friendship with Mr. Castro , did a number of people Come to you and ask for favors?
Mr. McKEOWN - Oh, Jesus Christ, Yes. One of your good friends came to me, a gentleman by the name of Butler. He was a campaign manager for Ike Eisenhower or something. He was a big wheel with the Republicans and I am a Democrat and he told! me --I will tell you. This was the most mysterious thing you ever heard of.
Mr. PREYER - I do not care to know the details of all of these visits because they would not be relevant to our inquiry, but you were visited by a number of people or called and Jack Ruby's call was a part of this?
Mr. McKEOWN - The people came down to see me, you see, after Castro took over, for wanting me to do those people favors, like sugar.
Mr. PREYER - These were mostly people who wanted to get some business deal with Cuba?
Mr. McKEOWN - Right.
Mr. PREYER - Mr. Fithian, do you have any questions?
Mr. FITHIAN - I do not have any at this point, Chairman.
Mr. PREYER - I think it might be appropriate at this point, before we leave the Ruby matter, to enter the FBI Report that you referred to into the record.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask the Clerk to mark the FBI report of January 28, 1964 with Mr. Robert Ray McKeown, conducted by Special Agent Daniel Foltz for identification. I would like to ask the Clerk to mark JFK Exhibit No. 93. ( the document referred to was marked JFK Exhibit No. 93 and will be found in the files of the Subcommittee.)
Mr. PURDY - Mr. Chairman, I would like to ask at this time that JFK Exhibit 93 will be entered into the record.
Mr. PREYER - Without objection, it is entered into the record at this time. (The document referred to , having been previously marked for identification as JFK Exhibit No. 93 for identifica- tion was entered into the record.)
Mr. PURDY - If the Chair wishes, I will begin the questioning of Mr. McKeown's contact with Mr. Oswald.
Mr. PREYER - Please proceed.
Mr. PURDY - Mr, McKeown, when did you first meet Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. McKEOWN - Well, I was sitting in my home in St. Leon, Texas, and I would venture to say that it was around 9:00 or 10:00 in the morning and I seen this car drive up, it had a big picture window. I seen this car drive up and these two people got out and they came and knocked on the door and my wife was in her negligee and she ran upstairs, you know, and Sam was there, We were getting ready to go get some oysters or something, I do not know. 4 HO 44-939 He remarked he is not certain that the above-described telephone caller from Dallas or the man who personally appeared at the J and M Drive-in was identical with the JACK RUBY who killed LEE HARVEY OSWALD. To his knowledge, he has never seen or met LEE HARVEY OSWALD. McKEOWN stated that he knew of no one by the name of "Davis" who was convicted for gun running activity with Cuba. FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION 1 January 28, 1954 064514 ROBERT RAY MCKEOWN, born January 28, 1913, residence Bay Cliff, Texas, unlisted telephone number Bay Cliff 9661492, upon interview at the Houston Division of the furnished the following information: He is presently employed as a salesman for the Houston Slush Pump Company, 2112 Quitman Street, Houston, and he formerly resided with his sister, MRS. FRANK DENNY, 9138 Wayfarer Street, Houston. His wife makes her residence in Miami, Florida. On February 25, 1958, he was arrested and charged with conspiracy to smuggle guns and related equipment to Cuba for the benefit and use of FIDEL CASTRO and his forces. On October 24, 1958, in the United States District Court, Southern District of Texas, Houston, Texas, he was sentenced for these activities to 60 days to serve and fined $500 On One count, and was given a two year sentence suspended for five years on good behavior on a second count. The period of his probation expired December 11, 1963. At the time of his arrest, conviction and sentencing, considerable publicity concerning him and his activities appeared in the press. His photograph appeared in the newspapers on a number of occasions. He knows FIDEL CASTRO personally, and when CASTRO visited Houston, Texas, briefly in April, 1959, McKEOWN went to the Houston Airport, visited with CASTRO, and had his photograph taken with CASTRO. This photograph was widely publicized. CASTRO tried to persuade him to stay on the airplane and proceed to Cuba with him (CASTRO). However, because he was then on probation, he told CASTRO it would not be possible. CASTRO was somewhat irritated at this, and suggested that McKEOWN disregard the probation and anyway. CASTRO stated he would give McKEOWN a Government position in Cuba or perhaps he might give him some franchises or concessions there. McKEOWN responded that he fully intended to comply with his probation to the letter, and stated he would come to Cuba when he could do so in a completely legal manner. During 1958, while McKEOWN was out on bond and prior to his sentencing, he and a MR. JARRETT entered a partnership and opened up the J and M Drive-In on Red Bluff Road near Taylor Lake and Clear Lake, in the vicinity of _________________________________________________________________ On 1/24/64 of Houston, Texas File # HO 44-939 --------- ------------------- ------------------------- By SA DANIEL W. FULTS, JR.: mem Date dictated 7/28/64 -------------------------------- ----------- This document contains neither recommendations nor conclusions of the FBI. Itis the property of the FBI and is loaned to your agency; it and the contents are not to be distributed outside your agency. 2 NO 44-939 Kemah and Seabrook, Texas. McKEOWN obtained his share of the funds for this venture by borrowing from CARLOS PRIO SOCARRAS, former President of Cuba with whom he had a close friendship. About two years ago, MR. JARRETT died, and the business was sold. FIDEL CASTRO took over the leadership of Cuba on about January 1, 1959, following the revolution which he had led. About one week after that, while he was on duty at the J and M Drive-In, Harris County, Texas, Deputy Sheriff ANTHONY "BOOTS" AYO appeared and said that some person had been frantically calling the Harris County Sheriff's Office in an effort to locate McKEOWN. The name of the caller was not known to AYO, but he was calling from Dallas, Texas, and on the last call had said it was a life and death matter. Mc- KEOWN advised AYO to provide the caller with the telephone number of the J and M Drive-In. In about one hour's time, (8:00 p.m. or 8:30 p.m.) a person called McKEOWN on the telephone and said his name was "Rubenstein". The caller said he was calling from Dallas, Texas, and indicated he was aware that McKEOWN had influence in Cuba and particularly with CASTRO. The caller stated he wanted to get three individuals out of Cuba who were being held by CASTRO. He stated that if McKEOWN could achieve their release he would be paid $5,000 for each person. The caller added that a person in Las Vegas, Nevada, would put up the money. McKEOWN replied that he most certainly was interested in making some money, and assured the Caller he could obtain the release of any person being detained by CASTRO; however, McKEOWN specifically advised the caller he would do nothing toward this end until he was paid $5,000.00 in cash at the outset. The caller stated he would clear this with the man in Las Vegas, and would later recontact McKEOWN. Nothing further was ever heard from this individual by McKEOWN. About three weeks following this telephone call, a man personally appeared at the J and M Drive-In and spoke with McKEOWN. This person did not identify himself to McKEOWN, nor did McKEOWN ask his name. The man said he had a proposition whereby McKEOWN could make $25,000. When he indicated genuine interest in the man's pro- position, they went to the feaT. of the Drive- In where patrons sit to 3 HO 44-939 drink beer and where they could talk more privately. The man stated he had an option on a great number of Jeeps which were in Shreveport, Louisiana, and he desired to sell them to CASTRO at a very profitable figure. He wanted McKEOWN to provide him with a letter of introduction to CASTRO, which letter would clearly indicate that the bearer was responsible and reliable. McKEOWN said he would gladly provide such a letter of introduction for a fee of $25,000, but before he undertook to do anything he would have to have in hand at least $5,000.00 in cash. The man indicated he wanted the letter right away, whereupon McKEOWN asked if he had the necessary $5,000 in his pocket. The man said that he did not, but that he would go and get the money and return. According to McKEOWN, the man never returned nor did he ever again see him. McKEOWN stated that from the numerous photographs he has seen in the press and in magazines of JACK RUBY, the man with whom he talked concerning the letter of introduction to CASTRO resembles RUBY. The man gave the impression of being or trying to be a "big shot", and his manner and attitude was rather haughty. While his recollection of this man is somewhat hazy at this time, he vividly recalls the man had a small patch on his nose. McKEOWN recalled he had asked the fellow what the patch was for, and he was advised that he had attempted to take out a blackhead and a small infection developed. To the best of his recollection, this man was probably 45 to 50 years of age, 5' 8" to 5' lO" in height, 200 pounds, stocky build, well dressed. He recalled the man had a tie clasp which matched his cuff links. He had no idea how the fellow traveled to the J and M Drive-In, and he never ascertained the man's name. McKEOWN advised that he feels strongly that this individual was in fact JACK RUBY, the man whose photograph he has seen many times recently in the press. McKEOWN commented that because of the publicity accorded him in connection with his gun smuggling activities, he was literally besieged with requests for favors, requests for interceding with CASTRO, et cetera, following CASTRO's successful effort in Cuba. He stated his inability to leave the United States during his probationary period prevented him from fulfilling some of these requests which would have provided fabulous fees. This fellow hooked on the door. As I opened the door he says, well, golly, I finally found you. You are McKeown, are you not? And I said yes. And he said well, I have looked for you quite awhile but I am sure that you are McKeown. So I invited him in. He had another gentleman with him and he was more or less in his shirtsleeves, you know, he was not dressed up or anything, but the other fellow was dressed up. He says, I understand that you can supply any amount of arms. I said, who. told you that? He says, well, I' am pretty sure that you can do it. He says, we are 'thinking about having a revolution in El Salvador --that is where he said, I said, El Salivador? He said yes. I said, well, I want to tell you right now here that I am on probation and I said I am not about to get mixed up in no damned arms of any kind, not anymore. I said I am in enough trouble as it is. So I told him, I would not give him nothing. So he kept on talking, you know,, and said that I could make all of this money and everything and I said well, not interested in money. I am married now, I am working, I am trying to do right and I do not want to get mixed up in anything like that. I was trying to get him out of, the house, you know what I mean, because I did not want my wife -- because she did not know all of this. I guess that sounds fantastic. She did not know that I was mixed up in all of this mess. I was trying to get him the hell out of the house. But he introduced me to this fellow he was with, but he did not say hardly anything, just acknowledge us, recognized. I finally got them out of the house so they went to the car and I closed the door, went back in and I said, I told Sam, I said, ain't that a hell of a mess? And he says, Mac, don't mess with them. I says I am not going to mess with them. So he came back and knocked at the door again. As a matter of fact, when he first came to the door, he told me was Lee Oswald. He did not say Lee Harvey Oswald, he said I'm Lee Oswald, and he said, I finally found you. I finally got them out of the house and they went. It was a big house right on the water and they had their car parked out there. The last time I looked at them they were almost to the car, so I went in the house and closed the door and they came back and knocked on the door, just him, and I stepped out then. I went outside of the house and he told me, he said, Mac, would you do me a favor? And it will not involve you in any way. He says I can give you $10,000 if you can get me four rifles. He days he would prefer 300 Savage automatics with a telescope sight, and I kind of thought a little bit, you know? And I said, what do you want with four rifles. You can't do nothing with a revolution with four rifles. So he says, well, if you get them for me, I would sure appreciate it. He says, I will give you $10,000 if you can get those four rifles. So I thought about it, you know, I said no, no way I said, just like I told you, I am not getting involved in no kind of arms. Hell, if you want five rifles, you can go down to Sears Roebuck and buy them. You can. get rifles in any hardware store. That is what I told them. Why do you have to come to me to get them? So he kind of got a little peeved. He seemed like a smart. guy, smart aleck. That is my opinion. So I told him there wes no reason for you and me talking anymore. I am not going to fool with any arms whatsoever, none whatsoever. I went back into the house. That is all there was to it.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. McKeown, did Mr. Oswald introduce you to the person he was with?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - What did he say his name was?
Mr. McKEOWN - Hernandez.
Mr. PURDY - Is that the only name he said?
Mr. McKEOWN - Hernandez.
Mr. PURDY - Did Mr. Hernandez speak English?
Mr. McKEOWN - He did not speak much of anything. He just said he was glad to know me and had heard a lot about me. I said that is all in the past. Well, he, as a matter of fact, he did not hardly open his mouth after that.
Mr. PURDY - Could you please describe the person whom you said identified himself as Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes. He was about your size, maybe a little smaller, and he was in shirtsleeves. He did not have a coat on. Kind of light complected. He was just an ordinary looking, guy. He was not big, he was not what you would call small, just about your height, I. guess, or maybe a little shorter.
Mr. PURDY - Was he light or dark complexioned?
Mr. McKEOWN - He was kind of light. He looked like he had been in the sun a little bit, kind of light, kind of like your color, a little bit.
Mr. PURDY - Approximately what height would you say that he was?
Mr. McKEOWN - I imagine that he was maybe five foot six, you know? I really do not Know how tall he was, He was just an ordinary fellow.
Mr. PURDY - Was he taller or shorter than Hr. Hernandez?
Mr. McKEOWN - Hernandez was taller.
Mr. PURDY - Approximately how tall was Mr. Hernandez?
Mr. McKEOWN - My height.
Mr. PURDY - How tall are you?
Mr. McKEOWN - Five eleven.
Mr. PURDY - Could you describe Mr. Hernandez?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes, he was Latin.
Mr. PURDY - I. am sorry, I cannot hear you.
Mr. McKEOWN - He was dark complected, but not real dark. You could tell that he was a foreigner.
Mr. PURDY - Can you describe the clothes he was wearing?
Mr. McKEOWN - He had a blue suit on, well-dressed.
Mr. PURDY - Did he have any identifying scars?
Mr. McKEOWN - I did not notice.
Mr. PURDY - Did either man wear a hat?
Mr. McKEOWN - No, neither one.
Mr. PURDY - Did either one have a characteristic walk?
Mr. McKEOWN - Well, I did not notice.
Mr. PURDY - Did Mr. Oswald speak with any kind of an accent?
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. PURDY - Was this man the same man. Whom you said was prison? You stated earlier that you knew of a Mr. Hernandez Who was in a Cuban prison. Was this the same man?
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. PURDY - How do you know it was a different man?
Mr. McKEOWN - Because I knew the man. The man who was in prison was, from Costs Rica. He was not a Cuban.
Mr. PURDY - What was his first name?
Mr. McKEOWN - I do not know. I know, but I forget.
Mr. PURDY - You testified that the man offered you $10,000 for four rifles, is that correct?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - Did you appear on a CBS special in 1975?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - Did you state publicly at that time that the man who identified himself as Mr. Oswald said that he would pay you $1,000 per rifle?
Mr. McKEOWN - No.I told Dan Rather that he offered me $10,000.
Mr. PURDY - Does it refresh your recollection to know that you said the man told you, "Now we will be able to pay you $1,000 each. That would he $4,000 you could pick up right quick."
Mr. McKEOWN - Well, he did say something about well, you can pick up this money right quick._ He emphasized that he had it in his pocket. I did not see it.
Mr. PURDY - Is it your present recollection that you were offered $10,000 for four rifles?
Mr. McKEOWN - That is what he told me.
Mr. PURDY - Therefore, you were mistaken if you said on the CBS Special that it was $1,000 for each rifle. Is that correct?
Mr. McKEOWN - I do not recall telling him it was $1,000. You see, we were down at this house where I used to live. This lady and I were divorced. I did not want to go down there, but Dan Rather -- we went down there. As luck would have it, she was not home. That is where it took place, mere or less on the patio in front of the house. I showed him right where the men came and where his car was parked and everything.
Mr. PURDY - If you did say it was S4,000, you were mistaken?
Mr. McKEOWN - I was mistaken, if I told him $4,000. He said why did you not take that, you could get those, guns for $200 or $300. I said, hell, I did not want to, get involved with no guns. I was on probation. And I said, I just did not want to get those guns for them. Let them get them themselves. Mr. Purdy, Did Mr. Oswald indicate from what source he intended to, get the money to pay you?
Mr. McKEOWN - No. He emphasized that he had it in his pocket, but I did not see it.
Mr. PURDY - Did Mr. Oswald indicate to you that he was working for somebody else?
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. PURDY - Did he indicate that he was working with a particular group in the attempt to work with a revolution in Salvador?
Mr. McKEOWN - He emphasized that he was trying to get I these arms to have a revolution in San Salvador.
Mr. PURDY - Did he say he was working with anybody else in that effort besides Mr. Hernandez?
Mr. McKEOWN - He did not say but I presumed he was. He could not do it by himself.
Mr. PURDY - Did Mr. Oswald indicate that he had been to Salvador?
Mr. McKEOWN - No. He just said that he was going to start a revolution in Salvador. I presumed that he had been there. I do not know. He did not say.
Mr. PURDY - Did he say why he wanted to cause a revolution in Salvador?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes, he did say that. He said it was such a small country that it would be easy to do. I think he was just a bunch of baloney. He did not impress me very well.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. McKeown, could you be a little more specific as to when this visit by Mr. Oswald and Mr. Hernandez occurred? Earlier today you said it occurred a few weeks before the assassination. Is that your present recollection?
Mr. McKEOWN - Who did I say that to?
Mr. PURDY - On the CBS Special you said that.
Mr. McKEOWN - Well, I know that my wife was a school teacher, you see, and it was on a Saturday morning. I know that because she was home. And I believe it was around October, the latter part of September or the early part of October.
Mr. PURDY - Do you recall being visited by Messers. Hornbeck and Fonzi on February 14th of this year?
Mr. McKEOWN - When they came to my house?
Mr. PURDY - Yes.
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - Did you tell them at that time that the visit by Mr. Oswald occurred in September or August of '63?
Mr. McKEOWN - I might have. You see, school started down there in September so that it must have been the latter part of September or the early part of October. Maybe it was August, but it could not have been that because she was teaching school and she was home on Saturday mornings and Sam Neal, he was an electrician and he was off on Saturdays so it was hound to have been Saturday morning.
Mr. PURDY - Were there any events that occurred apart from this meeting that helped you fix the time or day when this meeting occurred?
Mr. McKEOWN - When he came to my house?
Mr. PURDY - Yes.
Mr. McKEOWN - I can tell you this, that I know it was in the morning because we were sitting there and Sam was staying with me. This was a tremendous big house. His wife was getting a divorce and I told him to come stay with me until they got it straightened out and he was living there. We were sitting there drinking coffee.
Mr. PURDY - Did the visit occur after Labor Day?
Mr. McKEOWN - After Labor
Mr. PURDY - Yes, early September.
Mr. McKEOWN - I think school started on September 16th. I know it was after school started. Hell, it was bound to be the latter part of September or the early part of October.
Mr. PURDY - Do you recall approximately the ages of Mr. Oswald and Mr. Hernandez? How old would you say they were?
Mr. McKEOWN - Well, you know, just like you. I presume that you might be about 38, 39. I figured he was about that same age. You know, he was in late 30 s or early 40rs or in between there somewhere. I do not know how old he was.
Mr. PURDY - Approximately how old was Mr. Oswald?
Mr. McKEOWN - That is who I am talking about.
Mr. PURDY - Approximately how old was Mr. Hernandez?
Mr. McKEOWN - I imagine he was in his 40's. He was a distinguished looking gentleman.
Mr. PURDY - Did he appear older than Oswald?
Mr. McKEOWN - A little bit. You could say he was well-shaven, you know, clean-shaven. You could tell that he had a heavy beard.
Mr. PURDY - Did Mr. Oswald defer to Mr. Hernandez in any way?
Mr. McKEOWN - No, he just introduced him to me.
Mr. PURDY - Did Mr. Hernandez introduce you as Carlos or Victor Hernandez?
Mr. McKEOWN - I think it was Victor, yes, but I am not sure.
Mr. PURDY - Was the man named Hernandez the man in the Cuban prison Carlos or Victor?
Mr. McKEOWN - It could have been.
Mr. PURDY - You say it could have been?
Mr. McKEOWN - It could have been Carlos. He was not a Cuban, he was a Costa Rican.
Mr. PURDY - You said before that you knew the man in prison so you believe you knew Carlos Hernandez.
Mr. McKEOWN - It was not the same person.
Mr. PURDY - Have you ever seen Mr. Hernandez and Oswald prior to this meeting?
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. PURDY - Did you ever seen them again after the meeting?
Mr. McKEOWN - No. I have seen them on television.
Mr. PURDY - When did you first mention this visit to anyone after the assassination?
Mr. McKEOWN - You mean after the assassination?
Mr. PURDY - Yes.
Mr. McKEOWN - Well, you mean who I told that he had been there?
Mr. PURDY - Yes.
Mr. McKEOWN - I said, that's the dirty little bastard who was at my house.
Mr. PURDY - Who did you tell?
Mr. McKEOWN - I guess Sam Neal. You see, he was down at this place and he called me on the phone and he told he was watching the TV, too, and he calls me and he says Mac, are you watching the TV and I said yes. He said, that's the bastard who was at your house that got killed, that Ruby killed. I said, I know. Now, ain't that something? That is what I said. How about that. So I presumed that Sam told a lot of people and I told few people. I said, that is the dirty little bastard who came to see me that is supposed to have killed Kennedy.
Mr. PURDY - Who else did you tell?
Mr. McKEOWN - My God, man, I do not know who all I told. I told a few people. I was scared because I was on probation and I did not want to let people know I was implicated, knowing a person like that.
Mr. PURDY - You said you told quite a few people. Can you name one or two that you told?
Mr. McKEOWN - I told my wife. Of course, she found it out, and I told people that I was working with. I told my brother.
Mr. PURDY - What is your brother's name?
Mr. McKEOWN - Ira. He is dead now. Three niggers killed him.
Mr. PURDY - Can you tell us the names of anyone worked with whom you told about this visit?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes. I told -- I used to go out in the oil fields. I sold out in the oil fields. I traveled the oil fields and I how all of the tool pushers and things like that, and I told -- you see, I cannot remember names -- one big oil man there, I told him about it. He is a real big oil man. I cannot think of his name. I told him about it and I told a couple of his henchmen. You know, I told a few people.
Mr. PURDY - Do you remember the name of any of the tool pushers you told about this visit?
Mr. McKEOWN - No, I do not remember the names. If I see them I would know that that was them. It has been a long time ago.
Mr. PURDY - Do you still have contact with any of them?
Mr. McKEOWN - No, I do not. I am living in Miami, now. I have lived in Miami since 1966.
Mr. PURDY - Do you know anyone who would remember who the big oil man was whom you told about this visit?
Mr. McKEOWN - I used to know him.
Mr. PURDY - Is your wife still living?
Mr. McKEOWN - Which one?
Mr. PURDY - The one whom you told about this visit?
Mr. McKEOWN - Pauline, the schoolteacher?
Mr. PURDY - Yes.
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - Is there any other living person whose name you could give us that you told about this visit?
Mr. McKEOWN - Sam Neal. He was there when he came.
Mr. PURDY - Anybody besides Sam Neal.
Mr. McKEOWN - I told my brother and I told my sister.
Mr. PURDY - What is your sister's name?
Mr. McKEOWN - Laverne.
Mr. PURDY - Do you have more than one brother?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes. One of them is dead and the other one is living. He lives in Houston.
Mr. PURDY - What is his name?
Mr. McKEOWN - Harry.
Mr. PURDY - You told him about the visit?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - When Mr. Neal called you and told you that Mr. Oswald was the man who visited your house, had you already recognized that fact before he called you?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes. I had seen it, and then he called me. Well, as a matter of fact, it was still on the TV and I said yeah, Sam, that is the little bastard who was here.
Mr. PURDY - Did you mention the visit of Mr. Oswald and Mer. Hernandez to anyone before the assassination?
Mr. McKEOWN - No. I did not pay any attention to it. If I had known it, I would have notified somebody. It would be like you coming to see me. I did not think anything about it. They were just a couple of radicals.
Mr. PURDY - After the assassination of the President, you said that you recognized the alleged assassin as a person who had come to your house trying to buy four rifles and after the shooting of that person, Mr. Oswald, you said that recognized the person who killed them as a person who tried to make contact with Fidel Castro. Is that correct?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - Did you consider going to the authorities with this information?
Mr. McKEOWN - I think that I went to them.
Mr. PURDY - What authority did you go to?
Mr. McKEOWN - I think it was up in the Federal Building up in Houston. I went to my probation officer -- I was still on probation. What is that fellow's name? I cannot remember names. He used to be a professional baseball player,. played with the St. Louis Cardinals, and he was the head of the probation in Houston. Fields worked under him. And then he transferred me over. He was a well-known ballplayer. I told Gus Mantuso -- you know, you have heard of him. He was a ballplayer. And I told Frankie. He is a City Councilman in Houston, Texas now and I told Lawrence Mancuso.
Mr. PURDY - How long after the assassination did you tell your probation officer about your knowing Jack Ruby and Lee Harvey Oswald? Mr. McKeown, How long after the assassination?
Mr. PURDY - Yes.
Mr. McKEOWN - I do not know. I think Fields came down I and I told him, that is the guy who came to see me over there at that place. I had sold that place then. and he says, are you sure that is the guy? I said, I know it. I am positive that that was the fellow who came to see me.
Mr. PURDY - You told the probation officer that you knew Jack Ruby and Lee Oswald?
Mr. McKEOWN - I did not know Lee Oswald.
Mr. PURDY - Did you tell him that you had met both people?
Mr. McKEOWN - I think so. I think I told him that he is the one that had come to see me.
Mr. PURDY - Is that a short time after the assassination that you told him?
Mr. McKEOWN - I think so.
Mr. PURDY - You were interviewed by the FBI January 28, 1964. The assassination was November 22, 1963. Did you tell these individuals that you had met Mr. Ruby and Mr. Oswald prior to your interview with the FBI on January 28, 1964?
Mr. McKEOWN - I told them about Ruby. I did not tell them a thing about Oswald.
Mr. PURDY - I am not talking about the FBI, I am talking about these other people. You just testified that you told them about Mr. Oswald and Mr. Ruby. Did you tell these other people about them prior to your meeting with the FBI?
Mr. McKEOWN - No. You mean, did I tell anybody that I had met Oswald before the assassination?
Mr. PURDY - You testified that, following the assassination, you told a number of individuals that you had met Mr. Oswald and Mr. Ruby.
Mr. McKEOWN - I told them that that was the man who came to see me about buying the guns, yes.
Mr. PURDY - Did you tell these people this information prior to the time that you had your FBI interview?
Mr. McKEOWN - The FBI came out to the office where I was working right after the assassination. I do not know whether it was one day, two days or three days. I do not know I know they came out.
Mr. PURDY - Do you remember who it
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. PURDY - Was it Mr. Foltz?
Mr. McKEOWN - It could have been. That sounds familiar. He was a very nice man. I know he treated me awfully nice and I went up to his office, up in the Federal building. I stayed up there a long time.
Mr. PURDY - Do you recall meeting with him January 28, 1964?
Mr. McKEOWN - In his office.
Mr. PURDY - That was some time after the assassination.
Mr. McKEOWN - I think' so, yes.
Mr. PURDY - YOu just stated that you were in contact with the FBI a short time after the assassination, possibly a couple of days.
Mr. McKEOWN - I am going to tell you I was in contact when they contacted me. When did they contact me?
Mr. PURDY - They contacted you January 28, 1964.
Mr. McKEOWN - They came to the office, they came where I was working and they showed me their credentials and they said they would like to talk to me.
Mr. PURDY - Prior to the time that you talked to the FBI agents, did you tell some of these other people that you had met Mr. Ruby and Mr. Oswald?
Mr. McKEOWN - After the assassination, yes. After I had seen him on TV.
Mr. PURDY - But before the FBI interview?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes, I imagine. I told them right afterwards. When Oswald was killed, naturally I told a few people that that was the guy who came to see me. By any means I was not proud of it, but you know what I mean. You know how things like that are, hell, you want to tell somebody that's the dirty little bastard who came to see me.
Mr. PURDY - During'the FBI interview, were you asked about Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. McKEOWN - No. That is what I. could never understand. Mostly he was talking to me about Ruby. If he said something about Oswald, I do not recall.
Mr. PURDY - Did you tell him about Oswald?
Mr. McKEOWN - No, not as I recall.
Mr. PURDY - Did he ask you about Oswald one way or the other?
Mr. McKEOWN - Not as I recall. Most of it was about Ruby.
Mr. PURDY - You stated earlier today that you told the truth to the FBI, is that correct?
Mr. McKEOWN - I told the truth?
Mr. PURDY - Yes.
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes, I told the truth. I am telling the truth now.
Mr. PURDY - Did you tell FBI Agent Foltz on January 28, 1964, that to your knowledge you had never seen or met Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. McKEOWN - Before he came to my door?
Mr. PURDY - Ever. At the time of the interview in January, 1964, did you tell the FBI agent that you had never, at any time, seen or met Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. McKEOWN - No. They did not ask me.
Mr. PURDY - Does it refresh your recollection to know that the FBI agent reported that you told him that, to your knowledge, you had never seen or met Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. McKEOWN - Well, I do not know whether I did or not, to be frank with you. I was scared to death because I was on probation and I was afraid that if I let people know that I was involved with something like that they might revoke my probation, because one time I was down here in Miami and I was innocent. I was up at the top of the Columbus Hotel having dinner and I was not supposed to associate with anybody, no Cubans. Well Prio, Manola, two or three others, and you know, we talked a little bit. The next day the probation officer was at my door and he pointed his finger at me, you know. I told them that they just happened to be there when I came in. I made it my business not to fool with them anymore.
Mr. PURDY - Do you remember the name of the probation officer?
Mr. McKEOWN - The one in Miami?
Mr. PURDY - The one you were speaking about.
Mr. McKEOWN - Robinson.
Mr. PURDY - Do you remember his first name?
Mr. McKEOWN - No. I know his name was Robinson. He helped me a lot.
Mr. PURDY - It is your present recollection that you denied knowing Oswald to the FBI, is that correct?
Mr. McKEOWN - I cannot recall whether I did or not. I am almost sure, if he had asked me, I would have told him he the one who came to see me.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. McKeown, if you denied to the FBI that you knew Oswald, is, that incorrect?
Mr. McKEOWN - It could be. I might have been wrong at that time. You have got to take this in consideration that I was pretty damn scared at that time. I am pretty nervous right now.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. McKeown, you were sentenced October 24, 1958, is that correct? This was the sentence that followed up your arrest on February 25, 1958 that we referred to earlier. The records indicate that you were sentenced on October 24, 1958, is that correct?
Mr. McKEOWN - I do not recall the date, but I know the sentence.
Mr. PURDY - At that time; you were sentenced to a two-year suspended sentence and five years probation, is that correct?
Mr. McKEOWN - Right.
Mr. PURDY - When did that five years probation begin? Did it begin the day you were sentenced?
Mr. McKEOWN - I do not know. I know I spent some time in jail. They gave me 90 days, in jail. Judge Ingraham, end I think it was, 59 days or maybe 60 days, he let me out on account that it was Christmas.
Mr. PURDY - Is, it your present recollection ---
Mr. McKEOWN - Then I know I was on probation. Whether my probation was the day he sentenced me or the day I, got out of Jail, I do not remember.
Mr. PURDY - It was not later than the day that you got out of jail that the probation began, is that correct?
Mr. APPEL - I must object. I do not think this is relevant to the task of the Committee.
Mr. DODD - Let us suspend for one minute. (Pause) The Chair would advise counsel that the line of questioning is designed to establish the credibility of the witness in regard to certain statements. Therefore, I am going to overrule the objection of counsel. I am going to instruct the witness to respond to the question of counsel.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. McKeown, our records indicate that you were convicted on October 24, 1958 and sentenced to 50 days and a $500 fine on one count and to a two-year suspended sentence and five years probation on a second count. Is that correct?
Mr. McKEOWN - I am sure it is.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. McKeown --
Mr. McKEOWN - Let me emphasize something else here now, since you are getting into the jail business. That is the first time that I was ever in trouble and I got into that innocently and all I was trying to do is get my business back and I want you to know that. Mr. Purdy, Thank you. Mr. McKeown, when did your probation end?
Mr. McKEOWN - Five years after it started. I do not know the exact date, but I was sure glad to get off of if.
Mr. PURDY - Did your probation end December 11, 1963?
Mr. McKEOWN - It could have been. I know I asked him I said, don't you give me something, some kind of a letter or something that I am off of this probation? He said no, he said you just don't have to report no more.
Mr. PURDY - Therefore, Mr. McKeown, if your probation ended December 11, 1963, why were you hesitant to discuss your meeting with Mr. Oswald on January 28, 1964, which was over a month after your probation had ended? You stated earlier that you were afraid to tell about Mr. Oswald because of your probation?
Mr. McKEOWN - I was presuming I was still on probation. I was convicted -- have you got it down there when I was convicted? Was it in 1959, or when was it?
Mr. PURDY - It was October 24, 1958.
Mr. McKEOWN - I know when I was living in that house I was on probation. I know that, because I had to make out a report every month and I know that Mr. Fields came down to my house.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. McKeown, the records indicate that you were not on probation when you were interviewed by the FBI on January 28, 1964. Why did you not tell the FBI at that time that you had met Mr. Oswald?
Mr. McKEOWN - Well, the only thing I can say is the reasan because I did not tell him is because he did not ask me. As a matter of fact, I cannot recall -- and this gentleman that I went to see, this FBI men, the only thing that I can remember is we discussed the whole thing about Ruby. how he called me, how the Sheriff came and got me and asked me if he could call me and all of that. He was more or less interested in Ruby. Why he came to see me, that is the only thing.
Mr. PURDY - The FBI report indicates that you denied to the FBI agent that you knew Mr. Oswald.
Mr. McKEOWN - Well, I did not know him.
Mr. PURDY - Well, the FBI report indicates that you had never seen or met Mr. Oswald.
Mr. McKEOWN - Well, if I told him that, I sure made a mistake. Because Kennedy was assassinated before that, was he not?
Mr. PURDY - Yes.
Mr. McKEOWN - I was bound to see Oswald when ha came to my door.
Mr. PURDY - If you denied having seen or met Mr. Oswald it was not true?
Mr. McKEOWN - It must not have been, if I told him that, but I cannot recall telling him that, to be frank with you.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. McKeown, can you think of any reason why you would have denied having seen or met Mr. Oswald at that time?
Mr. McKEOWN - No. As a matter of fact, I was all for trying to clear it up, trying to see if he really did kill Kennedy, which I do not think he did.
Mr. PURDY - Do you have knowledge of, or did you participate, in any other meetings which involved Mr. Oswald?
Mr. McKEOWN - No, just the time that he came to my house.
Mr. PURDY - Have you had contacts with anyone who has had meetings with Mr. Oswald?
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. PURDY - Did you know or have you heard, David Petrie?
Mr. McKEOWN - I have heard of him, yea.
Mr. PURDY - How did you hear of him?
Mr. McKEOWN - I do not know. I know I have heard him.
Mr. PURDY - You know, you have heard of him but you do not know how?
Mr. McKEOWN - I think he was a homosexual and he was living in New Orleans, and somehow or another this Garrison who was investigating him or something, and he asked me if I knew him. That is the only thing I know. I did not know what the hell. I did not know him.
Mr. PURDY - You do not know anyone who knew him?
Mr. McKEOWN - No, I do not know anybody who knew him.
Mr. PURDY - Did you know of Mr. Guy Bannister?
Mr. McKEOWN - I have heard of him, but I did not know him.
Mr. PURDY - Did you know anybody who knew him?
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. PURDY - Did you know, or know of, Mr. Clay Shaw?
Mr. McKEOWN - I have heard of him.
Mr. PURDY - Did you know anyone who knew him?
Mr. McKEOWN - Garrison.
Mr. PURDY - Did you know Mr. Sergio Acocho Smith?
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. PURDY - Did you know of him?
Mr. McKEOWN - Never heard of him.
Mr. PURDY - Did you know Mr. George deMohrenshield?
Mr. McKEOWN - He is the fellow who died in Miami a while back, is he not?
Mr. PURDY - Yes.
Mr. McKEOWN - I have heard of him.
Mr. PURDY - How did you hear of him?
Mr. McKEOWN - Through the newspapers.
Mr. PURDY - Did you know anyone who knew him?
Mr. McKEOWN - NO,
Mr. PURDY - Mr. McKeown, have you had any contact with the Central Intelligence Agency or any other intelligence service, either domestic or foreign?
Mr. McKEOWN - I do not quite understand what you mean.
Mr. PURDY - Have you had any direct connections with the Central Intelligence Agency?
Mr. McKEOWN - Not knowingly, no.
Mr. PURDY - Have you had any connections which you later found out had been with the Central Intelligence Agency?
Mr. McKEOWN - That have been with it and are not there now?
Mr. PURDY - Yes.
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes. I later found out, but I did not know --I did not have no dealings with them whatsoever.
Mr. PURDY - Can you explain the nature of those contacts?
Mr. McKEOWN - I just met him and he told me that he used to be with CIA.
Mr. PURDY - Who was it?
Mr. McKEOWN - This gentleman knows him, right back here.
Mr. PURDY - Do you recall the name?
Mr. McKEOWN - His name is Ross Crosier.
Mr. PURDY - What were the nature of your contacts with him?
Mr. McKEOWN - He was a friend, not what you would call an intimate friend. I just met him. Well, I met him at a club.
Mr. PURDY - Do you have any knowledge of any of his activities ?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes. The only thing what he told me, he recognized me. I did not know him from Adam, and he commenced telling me about Castro, he was over there in the mountains with Castro. So he says. Whether he was, I do not know. The only thing I am telling you is what he told me. He said that Castro had it in for him pretty well and he did not want to go to Cuba. Whether he was with CIA, I do not know. He told me he was.
Mr. PURDY - He told you that he was at the time you met him or later?
Mr. McKEOWN - Maybe a day or two later.
Mr. PURDY - Did you have any contacts with any other foreign or domestic intelligence agencies?
Mr. McKEOWN - Not as I know of.
Mr. PURDY - Do you know anybody who has?
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. PURDY - Do you know if Mr. Prio had any direct or indirect contacts with the Central Intelligence Agency?
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. Chairman, I believe that it would be appropriate at this time for members of the Committee to ask any questions that they wish pertaining to Mr. McKeown's connections withMr. Oswald?
Mr. DODD - Mr. Sawyer?
Mr. SAWYER - Yes. I just have one or two concerning these four rifles. The .300 Savage scope rifles. Why would anyone want to buy rifles through some underground source, let us say, as opposed to just going to a store and buying them?
Mr. McKEOWN - Like I told the gentleman there, I do not know. Like I told him, hell, you can go down to Sears and get them kind of rifles. I do not know why he came to me.
Mr. SAWYER - What did he say when you said that?
Mr. McKEOWN - He said yes, but we want to get them through you. And I said, you are not going to get them through me. I did not want anymore part of any kind of rifles. I would not be caught with a rifle.
Mr. SAWYER - Rifles are not required to be registered in Texas, are they?
Mr. McKEOWN - They sure are. Rifles. I take that back. Guns.
Mr. SAWYER - I know in a number of states handguns are required to he registered. I do not know if any state requires the registration of rifles.
Mr. McKEOWN - To be frank with you, I think you can just go down to the hardware store and buy a deer rifle, shotgun, whatever. Maybe the law has changed. I used to buy them, you know, to go hunting.
Mr. SAWYER - I think you have to be a resident of the state now, really, since the Oswald situation, but that was not the law then.
Mr. McKEOWN - The law, I know to be a fact, if you go and buy a handgun, you have got to go to get a permit from Judge and you have to take that permit back to this place where you are going to buy this gun and let them see it.
Mr. SAWYER - The thing that is puzzling me still is why someone would be willing to pay $1,000 for a scope rifle when he could buy one at a store at that time for probably not more than $300.
Mr. McKEOWN - That is exactly what I told him. That is what puzzled me, why he would come to me. I do not know. I cannot answer that question.
Mr. SAWYER - He gave no answer when you asked that question?
Mr. McKEOWN - No. He says no, we want to get them through you. He says because we know you can get them for us. I Said, you came to the wrong man, I am not going to get involved, and thank God I did not get them. Since all of this has come up, boy I am sure glad I did not get them.
Mr. SAWYER - Again, I am fairly familiar with rifles and, at that time, I would imagine that you could get a fairly good quality scope rifle somewhere in the neighborhood of $300 or less with a scope.
Mr. McKEOWN - Sure you could.
Mr. SAWYER - Without any requirement that you either identify yourself or that there be any registration process of any kind.
Mr. McKEOWN - That was my opinion.
Mr. SAWYER - It just does not make sense to me. I could understand why he might come to you to get some submachine guns or bazookas or something that are illegal weapons.
Mr. McKEOWN - That is what he first mentioned when he first got there, machine guns and bazookas.
Mr. SAWYER - That is all I have, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. DODD - MR. McKeown, I would just like to proceed with you on what is confusing to me, anyway. In your interview with the FBI where you were specifically, as I understand it, asked whether you knew or had ever met Lee Harvey Oswald, in that interview with the FBI after the Kennedy assassination. reasons were at that time of telling the FBI that you did not know or had ever met Lee Harvey Oswald?
Mr. McKEOWN - Now, wait a minute. I think the question was put to me about Oswald though the FBI, I think he put it, "Are you not a friend of Oswald's," or something of that sort, and I said I do not even know Oswald.
Mr. DODD - What was your rationale, your reasoning at that time, for stating that in fact, with an interview with Dan Rather where you are rather explicit?
Mr. McKEOWN - The reason I said it was, I was telling the truth. I did not know him. Just because he came to my door, no reason I should know him. I do not know him from Adam.
Mr. DODD - Just a minute ago when counsel asked you whether you knew several individuals, for instance, Mr. deMohrenshield, your answer was only in the newspaper. If you had ever met Mr. deMohrenshield, I assume your answer would have been different. Is that a fair assessment?
Mr. McKEOWN - Sure.
Mr. DODD - You had actually met Mr. Oswald?
Mr. McKEOWN - When he came to the door.
Mr. DODD - Your statement was that you did not know him.
Mr. McKEOWN - I did not know him. I am talking to you right now. I do not know you, right?
Mr. DODD - I think you understand what I am getting at. Now you are being interviewed by the FBI who raises the name of an individual who was the alleged assassin of the President of the United States and you offer the FBI nothing more than a statement that you do not know him, even though you are aware of the fact that this same individual had come to your door four years before, less than four years before, and according to your own statement had proposed to purchase from you weapons specifically four Savage rifles, telescopic type rifles, and your statement to the FBI said you did not know the man.
Mr. McKEOWN - Well, I did not know him. I did not know him. The only thing I knew is that he came there.
Mr. DODD - How long did that meeting occur?
Mr. McKEOWN - When he came to my house?
Mr. DODD - When he came to your house.
Mr. McKEOWN - Not over 20 minutes, 15 to 30 minutes.
Mr. DODD - Do you recall what he had on that day?
Mr. McKEOWN - He did not have a coat on, I know that, but the other gentleman did. He had a tie on, too.
Mr. DODD - Oswald had a tie?
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. DODD - The other gentleman?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. DODD - Did he have a sweater on the color of his shirt?
Mr. McKEOWN - He might have had a sweater on, but I actually believe he was in his shirtsleeves.
Mr. DODD - The other man, Mr. Hernandez?
Mr. McKEOWN - He was dressed.
Mr. DODD - Coat and tie?
Mr. McKEOWN - Coat and tie. Very nicely dressed. He was driving the car.
Mr. DODD - Mr. Hernandez was driving the car?
Mr. McKEOWN - Right.
Mr. DODD - What time of day was it?
Mr. McKEOWN - About 10:00 o'clock in the morning. 9:30, 10:O0, something like that.
Mr. DODD - Let us suspend for Just one second. (Pause) Mr. McKeown, at that meeting that you had with Mr. Oswald and Mr. Hernandez, to the best of your recollection, was that a situation where both Mr. Hernandez and Mr. Oswald were transpiring business, or was Mr. Hernandez merely someone who was driving in the car along with him and it was Mr. Oswald principally who was doing the business?
Mr. McKEOWN - It was Mr. Oswald who was doing all the talking.
Mr. DODD - Were you under the impression that both of them were involved in the transaction together? I am asking for your recollection. I realize --
Mr. McKEOWN - I presume it was.
Mr. DODD - In business together, working together?
Mr. McKEOWN - I presumed. I want to tell you something else. Maybe you should know this too. (Pause) I know Mr. Fonzi here. He has treated me awfully nice and I know that he did not tell nobody about me having to come up here and I know damn well I did not tell anybody except my daughter -- I take that back; I told Ross -- that about two weeks ago, maybe between 8:00, 9:00 o'clock at night, the phone rang and I answered the phone and somebody on the phone said this is McKeown? I said yes. He says when you go to testify at that committee, just remember there was no Latin involved, period, and hung up. Now, if that is any good to you -- as a matter of fact, I would like to see this thing come to a head. I would like for you all to catch the bastard who did kill Kennedy and if there is anything that I can do to help you, I will.
Mr. DODD - Was the accent of the voice on the phone a Latin accent?
Mr. McKEOWN - No, American. But you know, a lot of Latins speak pretty good English.
Mr. DODD - Let me, for the record, say I said my question to you, rather than the Oswald meeting in '59, was the Ruby meeting, the Oswald meeting, in '63, to clear up the record? I have no further questions.
Mr. McKEOWN - I know the Oswald meeting was before the assassination.
Mr. DODD - I realize that. That was my mistake. I will direct counsel to proceed with the final questioning.
Mr. PURDY - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A follow-up question on the meeting with Mr. Ruby. Did Mr. Ruby mention two or three Jewish individuals in connection with wanting the letter of introduction?
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. PURDY - Did he mention a Mr. Goldberg or a Mr. Zaroff.
Mr. McKEOWN - Not as I recall. He just mentioned that he had contacts with people with money.
Mr. PURDY - Mr. McKeown, we are interested in some of your dealings --
Mr. McKEOWN - Another thing he asked me, have you never heard of me? And I said, I do not know you from Adam. I never heard of you.
Mr. PURDY - Did he say why you would have heard of him?
Mr. McKEOWN - I do not know. He said he was running a night club in Dallas. He said, have you ever been to Dallas? I said yes, I have been to Dallas. He said, did you ever go in my club? I said, not as I recall.
Mr. PURDY - Did he say what the name os his club was?
Mr. McKEOWN - The Carousel, I believe it was. It was nightclub.
Mr. PURDY - As I was beginning to say, we are interested with some of your dealings with Mr. Castro. I want to follow up a reference you made earlier to a mysterious deal you were involved with with a man named Mr. Butler whom you thought was connected with Ike Eisenhower. Could you elaborate on that for us?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes. Well, this, gentleman came out to my place. Not Mr. Butler, somebody else. I do net recall his name.
Mr. PURDY - Was his name Porter?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes, it damn sure was. Jack Porter.
Mr. PURDY - Please explain the story.
Mr. McKEOWN - Anyway, he told me that it was a very mysterious thing. He told me, he says, do you have any work clothes like khakis, khaki pants and things? I said well, I can get some. What is the occasion? He said we want you to go to the top floor of the Gulf Building in Houston. We want you to get off two floors before you get to the top and walk up and dress like a working person. So I did. I went and when I got up there, Ike Eisenhower, like the picture there, his picture was all over and the American flag was all over and he asked me if I knew anybody who was going to be on Castro's Cabinet and if I could see my influence to get a quota of sugar. I told him I was on probation. I could not go to Cuba. And he said well, we can get you to Cuba. I said what is it? I think he was a campaign manager for Ike Eisenhower or something. I really do not know who he was, hut I know he was up in some kind of a campaign and this fellow Porter was there. And that was about all there was to it. He just wanted me to use my influence to get a whole lot of sugar.
Mr. PURDY - Was this before or after your well-publicized encounter with Fidel Castro in the United States in the spring of 1959?
Mr. McKEOWN - This was after I had been arrested.
Mr. PURDY - Right. After you were arrested you had a meeting with Fidel Castro when he came to the United States?
Mr. McKEOWN - Right. He came to Houston.
Mr. PURDY - That was after you had been arrested?
Mr. McKEOWN - I was on probation.
Mr. PURDY - When was this incident about the sugar quota? Was it after you met with Castro in the United States?
Mr. McKEOWN - I think so, yes.
Mr. PURDY - Do you remember how much time had passed since you had seen Castro?
Mr. McKEOWN - Maybe about a week or so, something like that. I really do not know.
Mr. PURDY - Was it your impression that they came to you because of the publicity surrounding your meeting with Castro?
Mr. McKEOWN - That is exactly what I thought. There would be no other reason.
Mr. PURDY - Did you contact anyone to try to follow up this proposed deal?
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. PURDY - Was it your impression that the meeting Jack Ruby was before or after your meeting with Castro?
Mr. McKEOWN - I think it was after.
Mr. PURDY - Was it your impression that he had seen the publicity about your meeting with Castro?
Mr. McKEOWN - That is the reason. The only thing I can presume, that is the reason why he came to me, because of all the publicity.
Mr. PURDY - About how long after that did he come to see you?
Mr. McKEOWN - I do not know.
Mr. PURDY - Did a lot of people call you after your picture was in the paper?
Mr. McKEOWN - Oh, Jesus. Oh, my God, yes.
Mr. PURDY - You say hundreds?
Mr. McKEOWN - I would not say hundreds. I would say up in the twenties. Everybody was after me to do them favors, you know.
Mr. PURDY - A lot of people had different proposals?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes. A big bunch of crap.
Mr. PURDY - During your meeting with Castro he offered you a position in Cuba and asked you to come to Cuba, is that correct?
Mr. McKEOWN - Right.
Mr. PURDY - What contact did you have With Castro after that time?
Mr. McKEOWN - You mean since he took power?
Mr. PURDY - I mean after you saw Castro in the United States, what contact did you have with him?
Mr. McKEOWN - One time.
Mr. PURDY - What was the nature of, and when was that, contact?
Mr. McKEOWN - Well, some friends of my brother were fishing and the Cubans confiscated their boat and brought them into Cuba. And my brother came to me and told me that these three guys were real good friends of his and they were very innocent, they were not doing anything but just drifted off into the waters of Cuba, unbeknownst to them, and they were fishing. So he asked me if I could help get them out of Cuba, so I did.
Mr. PURDY - Who did you talk to?
Mr. McKEOWN - Castro.
Mr. PURDY - Who did you talk to before you got through to Castro?
Mr. McKEOWN - It took me about two days to get through to him.
Mr. PURDY - Do you remember anyone you spoke with?
Mr. McKEOWN - No. Operators mostly.
Mr. PURDY - When was that communication with Castro on behalf of your brother?
Mr. McKEOWN - It was quite awhile after he was in power. I do not know what year. It has been quite some time ago, quite awhile ago.
Mr. PURDY - The United States broke diplomatic relations with Cuba on January 1, 1961. Was your contact with Casro before that time?
Mr. McKEOWN - After that time.
Mr. PURDY - After we broke diplomatic relations.
Mr. McKEOWN - On the phone, but not personally. I just did it as a favor to try to get them guys out of Cuba. But I have not done anything like that. I have been offered quite a number of times to help get people out of Cuba, but I never did do it.
Mr. PURDY - Do you remember anybody who asked you to help get people out of Cuba?
Mr. McKEOWN - Quite a few.
Mr. PURDY - Could you tell us some of those individuals?
Mr. McKEOWN -They were all Cubans.
Mr. PURDY - Do you remember any of their names?
Mr. McKEOWN -DelGado was one. They offered me money to get their father or their brother or somebody out of Cuba. I never did do that. I did not want to get involved.
Mr. PURDY - You said a man by the name of DelGado called you and asked you to get somebody out of prison?
Mr. McKEOWN - I was working where he was working.
Mr. PURDY - You were working with him?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - What was his first name?
Mr. McKEOWN - I do not know.
Mr. PURDY - Where did you work with him?
Mr. McKEOWN - I was an inspector. It was a subsidiary of Aerodex. I cannot remember the name of it. It was in Miami. Aerodex. You have heard of Aerodex, have you not?
Mr. PURDY - No.
Mr. McKEOWN - It is a big company in Miami that repairs airplane engines, jets and things like that. And it was a subsidiary of that.
Mr. PURDY - Does your working with Aerodex help refresh your recollection about when the call to Castro was?
Mr. McKEOWN - No. It was before I came down here.
Mr. PURDY - Can you give us a better idea of what year or what month the call was?
Mr. McKEOWN - I would say maybe '65, you know. I came to Miami in '66 and went to work for them.
Mr. PURDY - You called Castro after the assassination?
Mr. McKEOWN - Oh, yes, long after that.
Mr. PURDY - After the assassination you called him on behalf of your brother?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - Did you discuss anything else with Castro?
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. PURDY - All you did was call you end ask you to get your brother out of prison?
Mr. McKEOWN - If he would do it.
Mr. PURDY - He said he would?
Mr. McKEOWN - Not my brother. My brother was not in prison. My brother's friends.
Mr. PURDY - Do you recall who your brother's friends were?
Mr. McKEOWN - No. I do not have to answer that, do I? They were very respectable people. They were oil people. My brother was in the oil tool and rental business and he knew a lot of people.
Mr. PURDY - You stated today that your only contact with Castro since seeing him in the United States in the spring of 1959 was a phonecall to him after the assassination?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - Did you receive any messages from him or send any to him?
Mr. McKEOWN - I could not go over there and this fellow came back and told me that Castro was expecting me to come over there, but I never did go. As a matter of fact, I have not been in Cuba since he took power.
Mr. PURDY - Did you sand that person to see him?
Mr. McKEOWN - No, I did not exactly send him. He was going over there.
Mr. PURDY - Did he want .to use your name with Castro?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - For what purpose?
Mr. McKEOWN - Something about exchanging some money.
Mr. PURDY - He wanted to exchange money for the money that was in use during Batista to the kind in use during Castro?
Mr. McKEOWN - Right.
Mr. PURDY - What was the man's name?
Mr. McKEOWN - I do not remember.
Mr. PURDY - Do you know anyone who would know his name?
Mr. McKEOWN - I will tell you who he was. He was kind of a bodyguard for this big oil man I was talking to you about that is there in Houston. He is a well-known man, but I cannot recall his name. I have not been in Houston in years.
Mr. PURDY - Could that be Mr. Merchison?
Mr. McKEOWN - No. I know him, no.
Mr. PURDY - How about Mr. Androtti?
Mr. McKEOWN - Androtti?
Mr. PURDY - Yes.
Mr. McKEOWN - I know the name Androtti, but he lives in Miami.
Mr. PURDY - Could it have been Mr. Byers?
Mr. McKEOWN - No. I think his first name is Frank.
Mr. PURDY - You were discussing the individual who was going to use your name with Castro to exchange currency?
Mr. McKEOWN - Right.
Mr. PURDY - What was the message you sent to Castro?
Mr. McKEOWN - You see, he had this money end it was Batista's money, you see. It was a whole lot of money. I was under the impression -- I was not too mad at Castro at that time, because he had just took over, you know? I thought he did the right thing. Now, I don't, but anyway. I thought it would be benificial to him for him to get this money that he could get for 25 cents on the dollar, but he refused it. He told this guy, he said, let Batista eat that money.
Mr. PURDY - When was this that this man went to see Castro?
Mr. McKEOWN - It was a little bit after Castro came to Houston. We came down to Miami, me and this fellow, and we checked in over at the hotel on Biscayne and we stayed there together for a couple of days and then he left to, go over to Cuba and thin he came back and told me what he said, that he would not do it, no way.
Mr. PURDY - Did Castro send any message or greetings to you?
Mr. McKEOWN - No. Oh, yes, he did. He told this gentlemen, he said when McKeown comes here we are going to have the biggest party that Havana has ever seen, which may he a lie, I do not know.
Mr. PURDY - Did you want the currency exchange to go through?
Mr. McKEOWN - I thought it would benefit him.
Mr. PURDY - Who?
Mr. McKEOWN - Castro.
Mr. PURDY - Why would it benefit him? 695
Mr. McKEOWN - He could, get all of that money for 25 cents on the dollar.
Mr. PURDY - Was this before or after Castro changed the currency?
Mr. McKEOWN - Before.
Mr. PURDY - How long after?
Mr. McKEOWN - Right after.
Mr. PURDY - Right after the meeting with Castro?
Mr. McKEOWN - I did not say the very day, but right after that happened. There was so much of that money floating around.
Mr. PURDY - Could it have been as late as August?
Mr. McKEOWN - I do not know. Maybe a month or two months after.
Mr. PURDY - The meeting with Castro was in April in 1959 and you think it was, at most, a month or two after that that this men went to see Castro?
Mr. McKEOWN - It must have been, yes.
Mr. PURDY - You do not recall that man's full name?
Mr. McKEOWN - No, I do not. I just seen him that little time. I was there in Houston at that time. I do not even remember where I was living at at that time. I was running that business that I had over there. This particular man came down here to see me to do this and we went to Miami.
Mr. PURDY - Prior to your appearance here today has anyone connected with the Cuban government contacted you?
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. PURDY - Did you receive a call from anyone connected with the Cuban delegation to the United Nations about your contacts with Castro prior to this appearance?
Mr. McKEOWN - Well, Mark Lane met this man and this gentleman was under the impression that I was dead and he told me that if I could come to Cuba that Castro was very generous and he would like to show his appreciation.
Mr. PURDY - How recently was this call?
Mr. McKEOWN - It has not been too long ago.
Mr. PURDY - Within the last year.
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - Within the last month?
Mr. McKEOWN - No. About a couple of months.
Mr. PURDY - Was any mention made by that official of the Cuban government of your testimony, before this Committee?
Mr. McKEOWN - No, this Committee did not even come into it.
Mr. PURDY - Was any mention made of your contacts, previous contacts, with Mr. Ruby or Mr. Oswald?
Mr. McKEOWN - What do you mean?
Mr. PURDY - Did the person who called you mention--
Mr. McKEOWN - No. It did not have anything to do with it. They just wanted to know, glad to know, that I was still living.
Mr. PURDY - After Castro took power in Cuba, did you have information about anyone involved in attempts to overthrow him?
Mr. McKEOWN - Sure.
Mr. PURDY - What were some of the groups that were interested in overthrowing Castro that you have personal knowledge of?
Mr. McKEOWN - Prio.
Mr. PURDY - How long after Castro took power did Prio turn against him?
Mr. McKEOWN - When he left -- you know, he went over there and he put two and two together, I will express it that way. He found out that Castro was a Communist and he did not want no part of that so he got out of there and then he came to Miami. That is where he lived until he died.
Mr. PURDY - Was Mr. Prio involved in any plots to assassinate Mr. Castro?
Mr. McKEOWN - No, not that I know of, but I imagine -no, not that I know of, no.
Mr. PURDY - Do you know if anyone who was involved considered assassinating Castro?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - Who?
Mr. McKEOWN - A woman.
Mr. PURDY - What was her name?
Mr. McKEOWN - Marceau Albinez. But she double-crossed a guy who was going to kill Castro and I think he got killed. He was an American.
Mr. PURDY - How did you learn of this?
Mr. McKEOWN - Through Prio.
Mr. PURDY - He told you that she had been in a plot to kill Castro?
Mr. McKEOWN - But, you see, she was to blame for me getting caught, really. She was in with Prio and I used to go to her house and everything, and she wanted very much to overthrow Batista, and then she fell in love with -- not an Ambassador, what do you call them? Consul -- and then she turned and worked against Castro.
Mr. PURDY - What was the name of the man she was involved with in the plot?
Mr. McKEOWN - I do not know. He was a councilman there in Miami for the Cuban government.
Mr. PURDY - Do you know how they were going to kill Castro?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes. With a rifle.
Mr. PURDY - Do you know who was going to do it?
Mr. McKEOWN - I do not know him personally. I know he was an American.
Mr. PURDY - Did you ever know the man's name?
Mr. McKEOWN - No. I do not remember. Maybe his name was Morgan, but I am not sure.
Mr. PURDY - Could his name have been William Morgan?
Mr. McKEOWN - I do not know whether it was William Morgan or not.
Mr. PURDY - Did you know a William Morgan?
Mr. McKEOWN - I have heard of him.
Mr. PURDY - Did you ever meet him?
Mr. McKEOWN - Once.
Mr. PURDY - When did you meet him?
Mr. McKEOWN - In a lawyer's office.
Mr. PURDY - What were the circumstances surrounding your meeting him?
Mr. McKEOWN - That has nothing to do with this assassination.
Mr. PURDY - What was the date of that meeting?
Mr. McKEOWN - I really do not know. It has been quite awhile ago.
Mr. PURDY - Was it before your arrest?
Mr. McKEOWN - I think so.
Mr. PURDY - You have said Miss Albinez was at least part of the reason that you got arrested.
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - Which was February, 1958, so you believe it was probably before February, 1958?
Mr. McKEOWN - I will tell you the whole story about it. This fellow came from Costa Rica, the one I told you about. Well, he knew that Marceau was in with us, with the overthrow of Batista. So that it was cold. So he went to her to borrow her husband's overcoat because it was cold down in Texas and she had him followed. Now, that is the story. That is the reason they caught us.
Mr. PURDY - In your testimony today you talked about the currency exchange ideas occurring shortly after your meeting with Castro in April, 1959. Earlier today, you said that the meeting with Mr. Ruby occurred shortly after Castro took power in January, 1959. After we talked about the currency exchange idea, you said that you saw Ruby after you met Castro. Did you meet Castro before or after you had met Ruby?
Mr. McKEOWN - The only time I met Castro since this thing was when he came to Houston.
Mr. APPEL - Could I request a recess?
Mr. DODD - The Committee will stand in recess. (A brief recess was taken.)
Mr. DODD - The Committee will come to order. Counsel may proceed.
Mr. PURDY - Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. McKeown, you were discussing the plot that Mr. Prio told you about. You had said that the plot had occurred prior to your arrest, which was in February, 1958. Is that correct?
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. PURDY - Could you tell us when the plot took place?
Mr. McKEOWN - There were so many plots, which plot are you talking about?
Mr. PURDY - The plot with the woman, Miss Albinez. You said that Mr. Prio told you about a plot that was involved with her. When was that?
Mr. McKEOWN - Right after he took over. As a matter of fact, he was going into Havana. They were supposed to kill him when he went into Havana.
Mr. PURDY - That would have been January
Mr. McKEOWN - Right.
Mr. PURDY - You stated earlier that Mr. Prio became disillusioned with Mr. Castro shortly after he took power, is that correct?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - Was Mr. Prio behind the plot which occurred when he was going into Havana?
Mr. McKEOWN - Not that I know of.
Mr. PURDY - He just learned about it from the woman?
Mr. McKEOWN - He learned about it.
Mr. PURDY - Do you have information about any other plots to kill Fidel Castro?
Mr. McKEOWN - Just what I read in the papers.
Mr. PURDY - Did you learn from anyone else about plots to kill Fidel Castro besides the newspapers?
Mr. McKEOWN - No. Well, yes. There were some people who came to me and offered me quite a sum of money and told me that we believe that you are the only one who can really get close to Castro. And they wanted me to kill him.
Mr. PURDY - When was that?
Mr. McKEOWN - It has been some time ago.
Mr. PURDY - Before or after the assassination of President Kennedy?
Mr. McKEOWN - After he took power.
Mr. PURDY - Was it before or after the assassination of President Kennedy?
Mr. McKEOWN - It was after.
Mr. PURDY - After the Kennedy assassination?
Mr. McKEOWN - Oh, yes.
Mr. PURDY - Can you give us an idea of how long after the Kennedy assassination the plot was?
Mr. McKEOWN - I came here -- not here, but Miami, in '66, and I guess it was about '68, because I had worked-- and you want to know who
Mr. PURDY - Yes.
Mr. McKEOWN - Have you ever heard of a Cuban named Torrento?
Mr. PURDY - Torrento?
Mr. McKEOWN - They killed him.
Mr. PURDY - Pardon
Mr. McKEOWN - They killed him.
Mr. PURDY - The same person who offered you money killed Torrento?
Mr. McKEOWN - Torrento is the one who offered me money.
Mr. PURDY - Who killed him?
Mr. McKEOWN - Hell, I do not know who killed him. They killed him in his living room, shot him through the window.
Mr. PURDY - Were they people working for Castro?
Mr. McKEOWN - I do not know.
Mr. PURDY - You said people came to you to offer you money to kill Castro? Who else came to see you besides Torrento?
Mr. McKEOWN - Nobody.
Mr. PURDY - What you are saying is that only one person came.
Mr. McKEOWN - Torrento. He was in a movement there in Miami. As a matter of fact, all of the Cubans that worked around Miami, they were supposed to give the day's wages to Torrento to, you know, he was guaranteeing that he was going to overthrow Castro and he got killed.
Mr. PURDY - How much money did he offer you?
Mr. McKEOWN - $100,000.
Mr. PURDY - Where did he get the money from?
Mr. McKEOWN - I do not know. Where the hell do they all get the money from? That is what I would like to know.
Mr. PURDY - Did he mention anybody else who was involved in the plot?
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. PURDY - Did he mention whether or not you would have to personally kill Castro?
Mr. McKEOWN - He emphasized that. He said, you are the only one who could get to him.
Mr. PURDY - This was in the mid to late 1960's?
Mr. McKEOWN - 1968.
Mr. PURDY - 1968?
Mr. McKEOWN - '68 or '69, somewhere in there.
Mr. PURDY - Did you tell anyone about Mr. Torrento's offer to you?
Mr. McKEOWN - No. Well, I might have told a couple of Cuban friends, but outside of that, I really did not think much about it, because I was not going to do it anyway. I told him the $100,000, if you offered me $1 million, I would not do that. Anybody who killed him is going to get killed. I am not quite ready to die.
Mr. PURDY - Did Mr. Prio tell you about any other plots to kill Mr. Castro?
Mr. McKEOWN - No, not as I recall.
Mr. PURDY - He only told you about the one plot which involved Miss Albinez?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes. You see, Prio was very bitter towards Castro and before I went on the CBS broadcast -- do you remember that? Well, I went to Prio's house, you know, to discuss it with him, whether I should do that or not, because I had a lot of offers from other people to write books, to do this and do that, but I never did do it. So I want to Prio. I want to his house and I discussed it with him about these people wanting me to go on the television, you know, about the assassination, you know, about Oswald coming to you, particularly with the Spanish man who was with him, or say Latin. I do not know whether he was Cuban or what, you know. He was Latin. And I told Prior about that and he said, my Cod, yes, do everything you can to get Castro involved in it. You can understand his position. He was very bitter towards Castro. You see, as a matter of fact, Prio is the man who practically furnished all of the money to overthrow Batista and than Castro turned out like he did.
Mr. PURDY - Prior to Castro taking power, who did Mr. Prio get that money from?
Mr. McKEOWN - I do not know where he got the money from. I do not know where he got the money from.
Mr. PURDY - Did Mr. Prio ever tell you where he got any of the money from?
Mr. McKEOWN - No.
Mr. PURDY - Did he ever tell you he got the money from any agency of the United States government?
Mr. McKEOWN - Oh, no. I know where he got the money from, but that is beside the point. He had the money.
Mr. PURDY - Where did he get the money from?
Mr. McKEOWN - Just hearsay.
Mr. PURDY - Please tell us what you have heard as to the sources of Mr. Prio's money.
Mr. McKEOWN - Well, you hate to talk about the dead you know, the man is dead. He was supposed to burn up $300 million and he did not burn it up. He brought it to the United States.
Mr. PURDY - You are talking about Mr. Prio?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - That was some money Mr. McKeown. That was some money.
Mr. PURDY - That was some money that he used to try to overthrow Castro?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - Where did he get the money to try to overthrow Batista?
Mr. McKEOWN - I guess he used some of that $300 million. He had a safe deposit box as big as that desk you are sitting at.
Mr. PURDY - You are talking about after Castro took over, Prio got that money, that $300 million, and had it taken to the United States?
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes.
Mr. PURDY - How about before that? Prior to the time--
Mr. McKEOWN - No. Not before. Not before. As a matter of fact, Prio and Castro were good friends.
Mr. PURDY - That is what you said earlier. You said Mr. Prio helped finance --
Mr. McKEOWN - He financed Castro. He trusted Castro.
Mr. PURDY - Where did he get the money? Where did Mr. Prio get the money?
Mr. McKEOWN - He wan supposed to burn this money up in Cuba and he did not burn it up.
Mr. PURDY - Are you talking about prior to the time Castro took power, when Castro and Prio were working together, Prio was financing Castro. Where did Prio get that money?
Mr. McKEOWN - I do not know where he got the money. He probably used the money that he brought over here when he came over here. You see, he left Cuba-- you know, Batiste overthrew him right after that, but he had this money over here already.
Mr. PURDY - When Batiste overthrew Prio, that is when Prio took the money to the United States?
Mr. McKEOWN - I imagine he took it before that. Do you not think so?
Mr. PURDY - Do you know of any other sources of money that Mr. Prio used, to finance Castro's overthrow of Batista?
Mr. McKEOWN - No. I do not know where he got all of that money.
Mr. PURDY - Was Prio ever involved with any Americans who were working in the casino business in Cuba?
Mr. McKEOWN - No, not that I know of, because I know he was against, gambling. I really do not think that he was involved with the so-called Mafia under Batista that ran the casinos. I do not think Castro was involved. I know four or five of them came to me and wanted me to try to help get back over there.
Mr. PURDY - Who were they?
Mr. McKEOWN - Just people who came to me