Testimony Of Paul M. Raigorodsky

The testimony of Paul M. Raigorodsky was taken at 11:15 a.m., on March 31, 1964, in his office, First National Bank Building, Dallas, Tex., by Mr. Albert E. Jenner, Jr., assistant counsel of the President's Commission.

Mr. JENNER. Mr. Raigorodsky, do you swear that in the testimony you are about to give, you will tell the truth, and nothing but the truth?
Mr. JENNER. Miss Oliver, this is Paul M. Raigorodsky, whose office is in the First National Bank Building, Dallas, room 522, and who resides in Dallas.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. At the Stoneleigh Hotel.
Mr. JENNER. Who resides at the Stoneleigh Hotel in Dallas.
Mr. Raigorodsky, I am Albert E. Jenner, Jr., of the legal staff of the Warren Commission, and Mr. Robert T. Davis, who is also present, is the assistant attorney general of the State of Texas and is serving on the staff of the Texas Court of Inquiry. The Commission and the attorney general's office of Texas are cooperating in their respective investigations.
The Commission was authorized by Senate Joint Resolution 137 of the U.S. Congress and was then created by President Lyndon B. Johnson by Executive Order 11130 and its members appointed by him. The Commission has adopted rules and regulations regarding the taking of depositions. The Commission to investigate all the circumstances of the assassination of President Kennedy.
We have some information that you are particularly well acquainted with the overall so-called Russian emigre community in Dallas, and you are an old time Dallasite, and while frankly we do not expect you to have any direct information as to the assassination, today, we think you do have some information that might help us with respect to--using the vernacular---cast of characters, people who touched the lives of Lee Harvey Oswald and Marina Oswald, as the case might be, and as I understand it you appear voluntarily to assist us?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, sure.
Mr. JENNER. Helping out in any fashion your information may assist us in that regard?
Mr. JENNER. I think it will be well if you, in your own words, gave us your general background, just give us your general background--when you came to Texas and in general what your business experience has been.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. My background?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, commencing--I don't know where to start, please?
Mr. JENNER. Well, where were you born?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I was born in Russia, I lived in Russia until I was, oh, let's see, I escaped from Russia in 1919, went to Czechoslovakia to the university there.
Mr. JENNER. You did what, sir?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I went to the university there and I am escaping from Russia--I fought against the Bolsheviks in two different armies and then came to the United States with the help of the American Red Cross and the YMCA.
Mr. JENNER. When was that?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. In December--the 28th, 1920.
Mr. JENNER. 1940?
Mr. JENNER. How old are you, by the way?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Sixty-five exactly. May I have this not on the record?
Mr. JENNER. All right.
(Discussion between Counsel Jenner and the Witness off the record at this point.)

Mr. JENNER. All right, go ahead.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, I came to this country.
Mr. JENNER. In 1920?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; and they told me that for the money that they advanced for me to travel, that we only have to serve in the United States for some capacity, so when I came in, I enlisted in the Air Force and was sent to Camp Travis, Texas, and then in 1922 I received an honorable discharge, and because it was I enlisted in time of war, I became full-fledged citizen in 4 months after I arrived to this country.. We still were at war with Germany, the peace hadn't been signed. And then I went to the University of Texas in 1922 and graduated in 1924.
Mr. JENNER. What degree?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Civil Engineering. That's all they were giving, even though my specialty is petroleum engineering, but I took courses in different subjects.
By the way, first, I speak with accent and second, I speak with colds, and you can stop me any time and I will be glad to repeat.
And, that was in 1924--then I went to work in Los Angeles, Calif. I simultaneously married and that was in 1924. I married Ethel Margaret McCaleb, whose father was with Federal Reserve Bank--a Governor or whatever you call it.
Mr. JENNER. Federal Reserve Bank?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. It was here in Dallas under Wilson in 1918---he was appointed. At that time he was a banker and was organizing banks. Then, I stayed in California for some from--1924 until more or less--until 1928. I worked as an engineer with E. Forrest Gilmore Co.
Mr. JENNER. Is that a Dallas concern?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No; that was a California concern, specializing in the building of gasoline plants and refineries. Then, I worked for Newton Process Manufacturing Co. and for Signal Oil and Gas Co.--just, that is, progressive--you see, it was going from one to another, getting higher pay and things like that, and then in 1928 the Newton Process Manufacturing Co. was sold out and three of us, I was at that time chief process engineer, and the other man was chief construction engineer, and the third one was chief operational engineer--we organized a company called Engineering Research and Equipment Co., and we started to build gasoline plants and refineries. Then, I was sent to Dallas because our business was good--I was sent to Dallas.
Mr. JENNER. Your business was growing?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, yes; growing. I was sent to Dallas and I organized an office here. Then, we moved the company from Dallas and made the Los Angeles office a branch office. Then, I went to Tulsa and opened an office of our company there, and that way we were building lots of plants in Louisiana, in Texas, in Oklahoma. Then, I sold out my third in 1929. It was a good time to sell out, and I organized the Petroleum Engineering Co., which company I have had ever since, until just now--it is inoperative.
Then, I continued to--I opened an office in Houston and continued to build gasoline plants and refineries under the name of Petroleum Engineering Co. and built about 250 of them all over the world and in the United States---lots of them even in Russia, though I never went there, we had a protocol ( I believe No. 4), under which we were supposed to have given them some refineries and gasoline plants--you know the "chickens and the eggs" situation. The fact is I had an order from the Treasury Department and one of them was sunk. Maybe this should be off the record?
(Discussion between Counsel Jenner and the witness off the record at this point.)

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Let's see, now, Pearl Harbor was in 1939?
Mr. JENNER. 1941; December of 1941.
Mr. DAVIS. 1941.
Mr. JENNER. December 8th.
Mr. DAVIS. The war started in 1939.
Mr. JENNER. The Germans invaded Poland in September 1939.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Already then we had the War Production Board, though to begin with it was the Defense Board, and then War Production Board, but I was asked to come to Washington. Now, let's see, which year was it? Probably 1941-- before the war.
Mr. JENNER. Before the war with Japan, you mean?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Before Pearl Harbor.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I was asked to come to Washington to organize the Department of Natural Gas and Natural Gasoline Industries for the United States, which I did, and then I had to open--I worked under DeGolyer. I organized the Department from nothing until I had five offices. We had districts in California and Tulsa and Chicago, Houston and New York, and then in 1943 I resigned, and in the meantime I got ulcer, you know, working like you do, until 11:30 nights, so in 1943 I resigned and came back to my business.
Mr. JENNER. Here in Dallas?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No, in Houston. At that time I officed in Houston. By the way, while I was building plants for others, I also built plants for myself for the production of motor fuel, L.P.G. and other pipeline products, and the first plant was built in 1936--the Glen Rose Gasoline Co. The second one was built 1943--the Claiborne Gasoline Co. Then, I lived in Houston until about 1949 or 1950 and I got sick with my back. You know, I have a very bad back. They wanted to operate on me there but Jake Hamon here, a friend of mine, told me that he wouldn't speak to me unless I come to Dallas, so believe or not, they brought me to Dallas.
That's very interesting what I am going to tell you--in an ambulance from Houston--and there was a Dr. Paul Williams-- he told me that without operation he would put me on my feet. I never went back to Houston, even to close my apartment or to close my office. but I moved my apartment and my offices here to Dallas and I offered people that worked with me, that I would pay them for whatever loss they had, because in selling their houses and moving here, lock, stock and barrel, I never went back. I was so mad, and I have lived here ever since with one exception. I believe it was in 1952--in 1952 I was asked by--you know General Anderson, by any chance?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. He was what we call--there was an organization in Europe called SRE, Special Representatives to Europe. There was an Ambassador Draper at the head of it, and Ambassador Anderson is a Deputy, and in 1952 Ambassador Anderson asked me to come to Europe and help them with production, so I went to Europe to improve the production of tanks, planes, ammunition, et cetera for all the NATO countries.
I was Deputy Director of Production. Now, I think I was getting along all right and again I got sick in my neck this time, so they flew--me they flew me to Johns Hopkins and found out that I had bad neck. By the way, I'm not supposed to have this, but here is my card.

(Handed instrument to Counsel Jenner.)

I left in such a hurry, they flew me under such pain, that I didn't return anything, and I had to start to destroy most of the things, and I didn't destroy this one. I stayed there for several months and then I came back here and I have been here ever since, living here, going to different places, going to Europe and I made trips to Europe, Tahiti, Jamaica, and finally bought a plantation in Jamaica together with some other friends here and we organized a club called Tryall, T-r-y-a-l-l [spelling] Golf Club, and I go there every year now. That's about all. My wife divorced me in 1943 for the primary reason that I wouldn't retire. I have two daughters, one is Mrs. Harry Bridges. That has nothing to do with the----
Mr. JENNER. With the Longshoremen?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That has nothing to do with the Longshoremen. And off the record now.
(Discussion between Counsel Jenner and the witness off the record.)

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. In fact, I just came from the wedding. That's the second marriage. Then, I have another daughter--maybe you know my son-in-law, Howard Norris?
Mr. DAVIS. Where is he----in Washington?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Howard Lee Norris, he graduated, I think, in 1951 or 1952.
Mr. DAVIS. No, I don't think so. What business is he in?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Lawyer of the University of Texas.
Mr. DAVIS. No, I don't think so.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I am very proud of that. That's my child.
(At this point the witness exhibited wedding pictures to Counsel Jenner.)

Mr. JENNER. This is your daughter on the left?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes. And, I will answer anything else you want to now.
Mr. JENNER. All right. While living in the Dallas area, and I listened to your splendid career, I assume that--and if this assumption is wrong, please correct me---that the people of Russian descent who came into this area of Texas would tend to seek your advice or assistance, that you in turn voluntarily, on your own part, had an interest in those people in the community and that in any event you became acquainted with a good many people from Europe who settled in this general area---in the Dallas metropolitan area and even up into Houston?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes--Louise, will you get me my church file?
(Addressing his secretary, Mrs. Louise Meek.)

Mr. JENNER. Will you be good enough to tell me first, and Mr. Davis, in general of the usual--if there is a usual pattern of someone coming in here? How they become acquainted? What is the community of people of Russian descent, and I do want to tell you in advance that the thought I have in mind in this connection is trying to follow the Oswalds.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. What would be the common manner and fashion in which the Oswalds would become acquainted, or others would become acquainted with them, and before you get to that, that's kind of a specific, I want you to give me from your fund of knowledge and your interests--tell me what your interests have been, what the expected pattern would be of people coming--like Marina Oswald, for example, into this community?
Let's not make it Marina Oswald--I don't want to get into a specific, but let's take a hypothetical couple?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. All right. I can just summarize what happened in the many years that I have been both in Houston and in Dallas.
There are methods of, I would say, of immigration into the communities in Dallas of the Russians I'm talking about. One is via friendship, acquaintanceship somewhere in Europe or in China or somewhere else, but with different Russians and the order by the Tolstoy Foundation--you are acquainted with the Tolstoy Fund?
Mr. JENNER. I think for the purposes of the record, since the reader may not be acquainted with it, that you might help a little bit on the Tolstoy Foundation.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, Miss Alexandra Tolstoy is a daughter of our great novelist, Leo Tolstoy, and I guess you know him, and she came to this country and she organized a Tolstoy Foundation, which takes care of Russian refugees throughout the world wherever they may be. They process them, which means that they know all about them before they come into here through their own organization or your different organizations. Like, you have a church in the United States--you have a church organization or all kinds of benevolent organizations that want to help refugees and they don't know who to help so they go to the Tolstoy Foundation and therefore the Tolstoy Foundation is able to place many, many Russians in this country, not only in this country but--I am on the Board of Directors of the Tolstoy Foundation--but also in European countries. Sometimes they cannot bring them to the United States, not enough money perhaps. Now, anybody who comes to the Tolstoy Foundation, you know right off of the bat they have been checked, rech ecked and double checked. There is no question about them. I mean, that's the No. 1 stamp.
Mr. JENNER. That's the No. 1 stamp of an approval or of their genuineness?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Of approval--in fact, the U.S. Government recognized that and has been up until about a year or two ago giving the Tolstoy Foundation as much as $400,000 a year subsidy for this kind of work.
Now, of the other Russians that come here, as I said, they come in through acquaintanceship--most of them.
Mr. JENNER. They come because of prior acquaintanceship?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. With some.
Mr. JENNER. With some people who are here?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right---correspondence you see. Like we have in Houston--we had a bunch of people coming from Serbia, you know, Yugoslavia--the few we have that left Russia and went to Yugoslavia and then they had to escape Yugoslavia, and there was quite a Russian colony there and some of them drifted to the United States and settled in Houston, and of course they start correspondence and working and lots of other people came to Houston and to Dallas through that channel.
Mr. JENNER. They followed?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Then, there is a small bunch of Russians that appear from nowhere. I mean, they don't come with any approval from Tolstoy Foundation or do they come through the acquaintanceship of people here. They just drift and there's no place, believe me, in the world where you cannot find one Russian. Now, I would like this off the record.
Mr. JENNER. All right. Off the record.
(Discussion between Counsel Jenner and the witness off the record at this point.)

Mr. JENNER. All right. Now, let's have this on the record.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Now, because of my--I always believe that even though I am, myself, not much of a churchgoing man, but I believe that the only way to unite Russians, and I think they should be united in this country, was through a church, so, for many years we had a church in Texas--at Galveston--but that church--we didn't like because the Serbian priest, they were coming over there. We couldn't figure it out, whether they were one side of the fence or the other.
Mr. JENNER. One side of what fence or the other?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, the only fence I know of is between the communism and the anticommunism.
Mr. JENNER. All right. You are on the anticommunistic side of the fence?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh; of course.
Mr. JENNER. I want that to appear on record is why I asked.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, yes; I have been all my life. So, let's see, maybe in 1949 or thereabouts--I have donated quite a bit of money to the Russian colony in Houston there with the understanding that if they would secure at least 50 percent of additional money from the rest of the people of the Russian colony, that they buy or build a church there, which they did.
Mr. JENNER. What religion is that--the name of the church?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Russian---Greek Orthodox. You may call it also Eastern Greek Orthodox. It's the same religion as Greek Catholics have with two main differences--one is the language in which the service is performed is the old Slavic languages against Greek, and then, of course, we have our own Patriarch at the head of our own church.
Mr. JENNER. In Houston?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, no, no; we have in New York--it's Metropolitan Anastasia, who is the head of our church of this country.
Mr. JENNER. Who was the pastor over in Houston?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, I will come to that.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Then, when we got to--when I came to Dallas we had Father Royster here of the church, I mean, he is a convert. He is an American convert to the Greek Orthodox religion and he approached me because he wanted to build the Church of St. Seraphim in Dallas.
Mr. JENNER. You must be acquainted with Father Royster?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. He knows me very well, but anyhow, here it is about the church here----
Mr. JENNER. The full name is Dimitri Robert Royster--go right ahead.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. (Handed instrument to Counsel Jenner.) That gives us the history of the situation here, but then we had a split here between the Russians who came to this country escaping the Communists or Bolsheviks, at that time we called them--they called themselves the Guard.
Mr. JENNER. The original church that you helped organize, that is referred to as the Old Guard?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right, and St. Seraphim you see, because we both occupy the same premises and I was the head of both of them.
Mr. JENNER. You were the head of both churches?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, yes; I belong to both churches. In fact I belong to three churches.
Mr. JENNER. They are different parishes in the same church, aren't they?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No, they are entirely different churches. I would like to explain to you--you see, in this country--I'm quite sure you know--I don't know whether you would be interested in what I am going to tell you about?
Mr. JENNER. I am primarily interested in this--from the depositions I have taken and inquiries I have made, my impression is that one of the immediate sources of obtaining acquaintanceship in the community by refugees who come here is through the church.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. St. Seraphim's is one parish and then there is another one--George Bouhe's folks.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. Or the church he is most active in, and I forget the name of that one----what is that?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's St. Nicholas.
Mr. JENNER. That's the St. Nicholas Church?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I'm head of that one.
Mr. JENNER. You are head of that one?
Mr. JENNER. And you say it is a third one?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No, it is not a third one here just the two. Now you see, this is the thing I have to tell you then, because that is, again, leads to the same Oswald situation, I believe.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. You see, the Father Royster Church is not just for Russians. It is for all the Greek Orthodox, whether they are Serbians, Sicilians, or Lebanese--and there are lots of people that came for the same religion even though their services in their own churches is in their own language, but here they are all in the English language because of Father Royster's.
Mr. JENNER. Father Royster preaches the sermons in English?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, yes; there is no question he is an American, he was a teacher at S.M.U. until he resigned. Now, I am a member of this church because it is a Greek Orthodox and I want to help them--that means I pay my dues and I help them with everything they need, in fact, we have a monastery there that's the one which Father Royster organized of which also I helped them. Now, the difference between Father Royster's Church and Bouhe's Church, as you know it----
Mr. JENNER. St. Nicholas?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. St. Nicholas---so that Father Royster belongs to Metropolitan Leonty--Metropolitan Leonty is in New York, and if you may say so, he is a competitor of Metropolitan Anastasia. Metropolitan Leonty is the head of the American Russian Church. You see, before the revolution, we had a church in America, and he was the head of it. Metropolitan Anastasia is the head of the Russians outside of Russia, because he is--whether he escaped Russia like all of us--therefore, all of us who escaped with him or about the same time belonged to that church.
Mr. JENNER. I see.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. It is very simple, and as far as I am concerned it is the better method, because we know each other, we know about each other, we know which fought, which one fought against the Bolsheviks--all of the so-called St. Nicholas Church is an old anti-Communist group--period.
Now, the St. Seraphim Church can be infiltrated by anybody because nobody checks, you see, the only thing--and there is no tie-in there except for the church--not that there is a tie-in because we fought against communism and because of the church. The same thing in Houston, the tie-in was not only because of the church but because we fought against communism and even though we came through different grounds, some through New York, some through California, but we got there and so we have a church over there.
Now, I personally believe that a church is a church--as long as it is my religion, I will go to one or I will go to another one. It doesn't make any difference to me. I tried to get them together and I didn't succeed in that town. In Houston--I think that is because it is only one church--it is more successful.
Now, I don't know it for a fact, but except as I was told by Father Royster that the Oswalds came through Fort Worth originally. Now, this is hearsay--that I believe they got acquainted with the people by the name of Clark.
Mr. JENNER. Max Clark?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I mean, that's all hearsay--I do not know it for a fact. While she is a Russian, in fact she is a first cousin of a very close friend of mine, Prince Sherbatoff, who lives in New York and lives in Jamaica. That's where I see him occasionally. Now, it is my understanding that the Clarks told some of their friends--again, this is hearsay, that "Here is a Russian married to an American and they don't even have milk for the babies." Now, that is my understanding. And so, the Russians, I mean of both churches, because there are not many Russians in our church as against another, started to provide them groceries, buy milk for the baby, in fact I was told that they had her fix her teeth--her teeth were absolutely, oh, it is unspeakable.
Mr. JENNER. This would, from your observation, be a perfectly normal sort of thing that would occur in this community through the churches that you have mentioned. They are small churches, the people are well acquainted with all the parishioners, that is, acquainted with each other. They seek to help?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Absolutely.
Mr. JENNER. They seek to help those who come from Europe as refugees or otherwise?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. Those of Russian or Serbian or Central European derivation?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right--that's correct.
Mr. JENNER. About when was the first you heard of hearsay or otherwise of--- -
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That that happened that way?
Mr. JENNER. No, of the Oswalds at all? When did it first come to your attention that the Oswalds were here in the Dallas-Fort Worth area?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. The assassination. I am absolutely ignorant of their names- -I never saw them before the assassination.
Mr. JENNER. I appreciate that--had you heard of the Oswald name?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No, never had.
Mr. JENNER. Prior to November 22, 1963?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No, in fact, I have heard a Russian discussing those things which I tell you are hearsay with me, on a meeting--we have yearly meetings.
Mr. JENNER. Did you say yearly?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Once a year--we meet to elect officers. We meet once a year to elect the officers.
Mr. JENNER. Is this true of both St. Nicholas and St. Seraphim?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. It's St. Nicholas. In St. Seraphim I do not attend to any kind of administrative duties. I am just a parishioner, now, because, first of all, I believe that sooner or later all of us will die in the other church and there will be nothing left but St. Seraphim. First, because St. Seraphim Church is growing. Well, if there are one or two of us left--it would be fine. You see, how we are at St. Nicholas--we are supposed to meet once a month and we are supposed to have the priest from Houston come here and perform services, but now Houston doesn't have the priest and so we don't have the priest. So, our priest from Galveston comes up.
Mr. JENNER. Comes up here?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. And I personally don't like him--so I wouldn't go to the services in my own church on his account.
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Now, I went to New York and I discussed with our people from our Synod, you know.
Mr. JENNER. The Synod, S-y-n-o-d (spelling)?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. And they are sending us a priest, a new priest, who will be stationed in Houston and then they come here once a month, but the Houston community is down to about 15 families and this is not any better. We have about 10 families, I would say.
Mr. JENNER. When you say different--you mean here in Dallas?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. In Dallas---yes.
Mr. JENNER. What is the name of the priest who comes up from Galveston?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Let me see---maybe I have it here.

(Examining file.)

Maybe he's not from Galveston--he comes from Houston, but he's the one that was, you know,---can this be off the record--I just throw those notices in the waste basket because I don't want to hear from him.
(Discussion between Counsel Jenner and the Witness off the record at this point.)

Mr. JENNER. Miss Oliver, Mr. Raigorodsky has handed me a one-sheet document, single spaced, typed, entitled "Some Historical Information Concerning St. Seraphim Eastern Orthodox Church," which I have perused, and in view of the testimony of previous witnesses regarding the organization of St. Seraphim's Church and their attendance at its services, and our parishioners who have some contact through the church, or at least because of their acquaintance with other parishioners, and in turn with the Oswalds, it would be helpful to have this statement in the record, and will you please copy it.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. You can have that--I have a photostat of it.
Mr. JENNER. Well, I want to copy it in the record.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. All right. "Some Historical Information Concerning St. Seraphim Eastern Orthodox Church."
In April of 1954, a small group of converts to the Orthodox Faith (Rev. Ilya Rudolph Rangel, rector of the already existing Mexican Orthodox Church under the jurisdiction of Bishop Bogdan, Dimitri Robert Royster, a subdeacon in Bishop Bogdan's jurisdiction, and Miss Dimitra Royster) sought permission of their bishop to organize an English-language Orthodox mission in the city of Dallas. It may be stated parenthetically that the three above-mentioned persons were working, at the time of the organization of St. Seraphim's, in close cooperation with St. Nicholas Russian Orthodox Church, of which Father Alexander Chernay of Houston was pastor and which held services periodically in the chapel of the Sunday School building at St. Matthew's Episcopal Cathedral.
Father Rangel and Subdeacon Royster set out to find a building that would be suitable to house the activities of the projected mission. Property was located at the corner of McKinney Avenue (3734) and Blackburn Street. The sale price of the property was $15,000, and since the financial resources of the organizers were limited, Father Rangel and Subdeacon Royster went to seek the aid of Mr. Paul Raigorodsky, a member of St. Nicholas' Parish. Mr. Raigorodsky agreed to make it possible for the group to acquire a loan from the First National Bank in Dallas in order to purchase the property (on which there was an eight-room two-story house). The property was bought in the name of St. Seraphim's Church.
Services in English began to be held in June of 1954. Father Rangel conducted occasional services--Sunday Vespers weekly and an early Liturgy once a month. Father Rangel and Subdeacon Royster constructed an iconostas and made a number of shrines and articles, and a chapel was arranged on the first floor of the house. After a month or 2 the member's of St. Nicholas' Parish were invited to use the chapel, since one of their members had been so instrumental in the acquisition of the property.
On November 6, 1954, Subdeacon Royster was ordained to the priesthood by Bishop Bogdan and became rector of St. Seraphim's Church. Shortly afterwards, it was agreed to transfer the title of the property at 3734 McKinney to St. Nicholas' Church. It was further agreed that the two groups would use the chapel, St. Nicholas' Church 1 weekend per month and St. Seraphim's Church the rest of the time.
In January of 1955 an extensive renovation program was undertaken, and both floors of the house were redecorated, sheet-rocked and painted.
Father Hilarion Madison had been ordained by Bishop Bogdan on October 31, 1954, and had worked with Father Rangel as assistant pastor at the Mexican Church until December 1954, when he joined the work at St. Seraphim's and became assistant to Father Royster.
For a few months joint services were held on the occasions when Father Alexander Chernay visited Dallas; that is, Father Dimitri and Father Hilarion concelebrated with Father Alexander.
In March 1955, Bishop Bogdan directed Father Dimitri and Father Hilarion to begin mission work in Fort Worth, taking advantage of the weekends when Father Alexander was in Dallas, in order to extend the benefits of the missionary activity to a group of Orthodox residents of that city. Services were held in the chapel of St. Andrew's Episcopal Church in downtown Fort Worth until the summer of 1956.
In order better to pursue its mission as an English-language parish and to attract orthodox people of all national backgrounds, St. Seraphim's Church decided to acquire property of its own. A house was bought at 4203 Newton Avenue, and a chapel, meeting room, office and kitchen were arranged in the house after considerable renovation. This building served the needs of the parish until the new church was built in March and April of 1961. The house was then converted into a parish hall. In 1962, an adjacent lot with its house were bought by the parish. The house is being renovated at present and will eventually be used for a rectory.
In September of 1958 the parish was transferred from the jurisdiction of Bishop Bogdan to that of Metropolitan Leonty, the Russian Metropolia.
Membership in St. Seraphim's parish has grown from the original 3 to approximately 125 souls. Average attendance at the Sunday Liturgy has increased year by year and is now about 75. A Sunday School with two classes is maintained. Services are held regularly on Wednesday, Saturday, and Sunday evenings, and the Liturgy is celebrated on Sundays and on holy days.
Mr. JENNER. Mr. Raigorodsky, in that connection, this document which is entitled "Some Historical Information Concerning St. Seraphim Eastern Orthodox Church," when was that prepared?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I have no idea because I have--let's see the early part of this year I have asked Father Royster if he has anything historical about the St. Seraphim, how it started and everything, or can he prepare something, and he said "No," he already had something, and I said, "All right, send me a copy of it."
Mr. JENNER. Do you understand that Father Royster prepared this historical summary?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's my understanding.
Mr. JENNER. Now, have you read this historical summary?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, yes; I did.
Mr. JENNER. And, are you familiar with the events and course of events that are recited in that 1-page summary?
Mr. JENNER. And to the best of your knowledge and information, does Father Royster, if he prepared it or whomever prepared it, is the recital reasonably accurate?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, I'll say it's reasonably accurate except it does not give the actual reason for the split of the churches. You see, here he said:
"In order better to pursue its mission," as a native language parish, "and to attract orthodox people of all national backgrounds, St. Seraphim's Church decided to acquire property of its own."
Well, that's not the reason--the reason is that we couldn't get along together, you see, and there was a constant fight between the two churches.
Mr. JENNER. And, the factions split primarily, as I understand your testimony today, over the Father Royster group and I use that expression not to tag him, well, I'll say the St. Nicholas Church, that would possibly be better, because Father Royster preached in the English language.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. And in the St. Nicholas Church or parish the services were said in what language, again?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. In the old Slavic language. That's not the principal reason either.
Mr. JENNER. Then, another reason is that the organizers of the St. Nicholas Church were, as you have said, labeled "Old Guard" in the sense that they were composed primarily of those people of Russian origin and other Slavic origins who in Europe fought----
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Either fought or escaped.
Mr. JENNER. Fought the Communists or Bolsheviks or escaped from their regime.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes--because there are lots of women and children over there, you see, they never fought against them.
Mr. JENNER. Yes; there are a lot of ladies, of course, who did not fight.
Mr. JENNER. And because of that common experience they tended to stay together?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right--more closely knit.
Mr. JENNER. More closely knit and they had a preference for the use of the basic language, and that group organized the St. Nicholas Church.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. St. Nicholas was organized to begin with.
Mr. JENNER. Then, you tended to support it and you have supported it and you are more active in that Church?
Mr. JENNER. You are more active by far, in fact, you are an officer of that group, are you not?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; I am president.
Mr. JENNER. You are president of that group, but you are a member of the other parish or the other church and you assist it financially as a parishioner?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. Is there anything else in the 1-page summary prepared or given to you by Father Royster that you would like to comment upon?
Mr. DAVIS. I would like to ask---did we ever get to the real reason for the split of the church?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I just made a statement a while ago.
Mr. DAVIS. I didn't understand--what was the reason that the church was split?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, they just couldn't get along together. I mean, it's purely personality.
You see, Father Royster at that time--that's the main point--Father Royster doesn't mean anything to you or to me, but to lots of Russians it means everything. You see, Father Royster at that time belonged to the Ukraine branch of the church. You see, he couldn't get ordained, but then he tried to, and I tried to help him to be ordained by Metropolitan and Anastasia, but he couldn't fulfill the requirements so he tried to get in through Metropolitan Leonty. He couldn't quite get in because of their requirements, but they suggested that he will be ordained by the Russian Ukranian Church, of which Father Joseph Bogdan, B-o-g-d- a-n [spelling] had the jurisdiction of the Ukranian branch of Metropolitan Leonty's branch of the Russian Church in this country, and so, you see, and that was--now, we have to go back through the basic facts that Russians and Ukranians have never gotten along together, and in fact, Ukranians were separative-----they wanted to separate from the rest of the Russians and he will have their church to become part of their parish. That was just going against the grain of every Russian.
Now, all those things tended to create dissatisfaction and fights, I mean verbal fights, of course no physical violence of any kind, but verbal fights, and Father Royster decided to pull out and he asked me if I would help him, and I said, "Sure, as long as it is a Greek Orthodox Church," and that's how it happened.
You see, some of the statements--like he said, "In September of 1958 the parish was transferred from the jurisdiction of Bishop Bogdan to that of Metropolitan Leonty, the Russian Metropolia."
Well, he is Russian Metropolia, but it isn't finished--in this country.
Mr. JENNER. The words "in this country" should be added there?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; in the United States. I mean, those are minor, but substantially, it is correct--what he said.
Mr. JENNER. With those explanations, Miss Oliver, will you please copy the historical statement into the record?
>The Reporter. Yes, sir.

(The instrument referred to is set forth on pp. 8 and 9 of this volume.)

Mr. JENNER. These differences of opinion, historical, religious, and otherwise, and arguments rather than facts, tend to affect also the views of an individual who is a member of St. Nicholas Church with respect to individuals who regularly attended St. Seraphim's?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, it's a peculiar thing that the people, as I understand it, who helped Mrs. Oswald, were people from St. Nicholas Church.
Mr. JENNER. Largely?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. So---I don't know how that came about--perhaps she is Russian. I can understand so much--she is a Russian and St. Nicholas is Russian and St. Seraphim is Eastern Orthodox.
Mr. JENNER. Did I understand you correctly, sir, that the parishioners, by and large, of St. Nicholas are exclusively anti-Communists?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. There's no question about it.
Mr. JENNER. Because of the history, there's no question about it--largely?
Mr. JENNER. There are other reasons, but that substantially is one major motivating force?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. And while they would be interested in assisting persons who are of Russian birth, who would come into this community, would they also be interested in ascertaining at least what they thought might be the political views of someone who came fresh from Russia, with in turn the thought in mind that if that person or persons or family in their opinion had some affiliation with or even sympathetic to what we in America call the Communists in control of Russia, that these people in St. Nicholas would have an aversion to them?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Correct. You see, he asked the question you are getting to---that is the first time I heard she was Russian--they told me they were interrogated by different branches of the Government and that is the first time they told me that they know of Marina Oswald, how they helped her and everything else and I asked them--"How did it happen?" Now, she went to the church to have her child christened.
Mr. JENNER. She went to St. Nicholas?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No; St. Seraphim's.
Mr. JENNER. And that caused what?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That caused them to think and to know, as they understood it, that she did it practically at the peril of her life.
Mr. JENNER. She did what?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. She did it at the peril of her life----
Mr. JENNER. You mean they objected?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Because he told her she cannot do that, she had to sneak out with that child to be christened and since Communists are atheists, they knew that she could not possibly be Communists.
Mr. JENNER. You heard afterwards that Marina had had her child baptized in St. Seraphim's?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. And those persons then in your church, the St. Nicholas Church, cited that as being a fact which led them to believe that she believed in the Lord and was therefore not an atheist, that it was a factor that led them in turn to believe that she was not a Communist. because Communist are atheists?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. Whereas, you accepted that as a factor to consider, but there occurred to you a countervailing consideration, which was----
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Correct--which was that the Communists may have been--if it was a conspiracy, that would to me have been the best way to get into the good graces of the Russian Church community.
Mr. JENNER. Lead people to believe that you were a Christian?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. And not an atheist?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. And seek by that stratagem to gain their confidence?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. So that that factor, whatever it was, had to be examined and held in abeyance so you wouldn't jump to a conclusion from that one thing?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. You see---I don't trust them in any kind of a condition or any kind of a statement that they make. It doesn't make any difference, but in fact, I know it isn't truthful--it's just like Mr. Gromyko lying to President Kennedy sitting in his office, you know, lying just like a trooper and then knowing that it wasn't so, but he lied. I don't have to tell you all about what Communists do and how they operate.
Mr. JENNER. Did there in due course come into this community a man by the name of George De Mohrenschildt?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER. And you were here when he came here, were you?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, let's say that I met George De Mohrenschildt in Dallas while I was coming here, just--you know--just occasionally to see my friends, probably about. I'll say 15 or 17 years ago, somewhere in that neighborhood.
Mr. JENNER. Had you heard of him prior to that time?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; I heard of him through Jake Hamon.
Mr. JENNER. Through Mr. Hamon?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Hamon, H-a-m-o-n [spelling]--Jake.
Mr. JENNER. Who is he?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. He is an oilman friend of mine here, quite well known, and he told me there was a Russian here do I know him, and I said, "No; I hadn't heard about him." That's how I met him--at a party.
Mr. JENNER. You are talking about George De Mohrenschildt?
Mr. JENNER. In this 17-year period from that initial acquaintance to the present time, had you come to know George De Mohrenschildt and acquire some knowledge of his origin and background?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I believe so.
Mr. JENNER. Would you please recite it to us--who is he, what is his history, his marriages, the nativity of the ladies he married and some of his activities, leaving until a little bit later in the questioning the business associations or contacts you may have had with him?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, from what I understand, George De Mohrenschildt comes from what we call by-the-Baltic Germans.
Mr. JENNER. What is--by-the-Baltic Germans?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. The by-the-Baltic Germans are Germans that lived by the Baltic Sea and they were Russians or rather, Russiafied Germans and they were in the service of the Czar for generations and generations and were considered Russians. Most of them were barons, you know, and I don't know whether George's family were or not, but the "de" Mohrenschildt signifies that his family had a title.
Mr. JENNER. That's the "de"?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. The "de"---yes; it signifies that. Now, I understand that he has a friend or his brother is teaching, I believe, at the University of Chicago.
Mr. JENNER. Is that the University of Chicago or Dartmouth?
Mr. JENNER. Dartmouth, or the University of Chicago?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. It might be, now, but at that time when I first learned it- -he was at the University of Chicago.
Mr. JENNER. And his first name?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I don't remember.
Mr. JENNER. What did you say his first name was?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I don't remember.
Mr. JENNER. I thought you gave it to me the other day?
Mr. JENNER. Maybe I could get it from some other source?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No--not from me. Now, when I first knew George he was an engineer in charge of the operations of the Rangley Field in Colorado. Then, he quit the job and went into the business of his own, which was supposed to be a consultant petroleum engineer and oil operator.
He was married, as far as I know, three times. I didn't know his first wife, but I know his daughter by the first wife.
Mr. JENNER. What is her name?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I don't remember; I'm sorry.
Mr. JENNER. But you have met her?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, yes; they live here at the Maple Terrace, which is next door to the Stoneleigh Hotel. The second wife was--that's where this was when he married the second time it was to a daughter of the Sharples, S-h-a-r-p-l-e-s [spelling].
Mr. JENNER. Was her name Wynne, W-y-n-n-e [spelling]?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No; we called her something else--it will come to me--just leave that blank. They had two children, both of them were spastic.
Mr. JENNER. Was a boy and a girl?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right. One of them since died.
Mr. JENNER. The boy?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. The boy. The son is still alive, and it's my understanding that his second wife divorced and she had to pay him, as I understand it, $30,000. Of course, you have the records.
Mr. JENNER. Yes, sir.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Then, there were two trusts set for the children and when one of the children died, George De Mohrenschildt wanted to claim the trust in his name and that was a fight which went to the courts, but at the request of some of the friends of Mrs. De Mohrenschildt and my friends, I called George and told him that if he pursues his suit, that his name will be mud and he can never come back to Dallas.
Mr. JENNER. How would that be enforced? You mean never come back to Dallas and join this Russian community?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. And be a member, because----
Mr. JENNER. A member of what?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Of the social group that they were here originally. You see, he took it differently when I called him. I can tell you it was a hornet's nest is what it was. Anyhow, he withdrew the suit--whether I did it or for some other reason, but I think Mrs. Crespi can give you more information than that.
Mr. JENNER. Mrs. whom?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Mrs. Crespi, C-r-e-s-p-i [spelling]. She is the one who asked me to intervene if I can. I believe I could have at that time because George owed me a little money, frankly, and he has been borrowing from me occasionally, always repaid, but it took a long time. The last time he borrowed he repaid very quickly.
Mr. JENNER. The last time he borrowed was it a substantial amount?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No; $500.
Mr. JENNER. He was divorced from the Sharples girl whose first name you can't recall at the moment?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Isn't that funny?
Mr. JENNER. And he then, let's see, that was the second wife; is that correct?
Mr. JENNER. And he married a third time?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. A third time.
Mr. JENNER. And is that his present wife?
Mr. JENNER. And who is she?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's a question----
Mr. JENNER. Does the name J-h-a-n-a [spelling] or Jeanne serve your recollection?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Jean--Jean.
Mr. JENNER. His present wife is named Jeanne?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes--Jeanne.
Mr. JENNER. What do you know about her?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, I don't know anything about her except that she was a successful dress designer, I believe, in California, and that she had, and I may say it frankly, that she had a low opinion of our form of government.
I don't know whether she is a Communist, Socialist, Anarchist or what.
Mr. JENNER. What are her views with respect to----
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Didi De Mohrenschildt.
Mr. JENNER. That's the second wife?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. It's Didi De Mohrenschildt.
Mr. JENNER. She is the Sharples girl?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. The Sharples girl.
Mr. JENNER. And did it come to your attention that his present wife was either born in China or went at a very early age, an infant age came to China?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I don't know anything about her except I know that she is part Russian, French--something else, but you see, she never expounded her views to me about her beliefs, but she did to lots of Americans, you see, and they would ask me why? What does it mean? You know, for some reason or other--and I would like this off the record.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
(At this point statement by the witness, Mr. Raigorodsky, to Counsel Jenner off the record.)

Mr. JENNER. What is the reaction of the Russian community in Dallas to the De Mohrenschildts, with particular reference to their political views?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, the Russian community here, it was, you say--"And political views?"
Mr. JENNER. The views separately of George De Mohrenschildt, and then his wife, Jean.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, would you believe me if I tell you that after all this time, I do not know the political views of George De Mohrenschildt?
Mr. JENNER. Tell us about him, what kind of a person is he? He seems from some of our information to be reckless, to make nonsense at times, he appears to have traveled extensively in Europe, Mexico, Haiti, the Dominican Republic; he is a man who has provoked or seems to seek to provoke others into argument by making outlandish statements. We would like to know something from you as a--if I may use the expression but in a sense of compliment--a member of the "Old Guard," and you have had some contact with this man for 17 years now--what is he or what makes him tick?
He had contact with the Oswalds, we haven't yet talked with him, and we are seeking to get all the information we can about this man, his personality, his habits, his business interests, his contacts with you---political views even if they are stated in supposed jest, and the political views of his wife, Jeanne, who is tolerant? Is he just a character?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's a question. You see, talking about, and believe me, that's the only time---first of all, I've got George De Mohrenschildt to become a member of the Petroleum Club.
Mr. JENNER. What is the Petroleum Club?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. It is the Petroleum Club, Dallas Petroleum Club.
Mr. JENNER. Did you seek to do it for him?
Mr. JENNER. He was a man of grace at the club?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Very much so a man of grace, a man of breeding.
Mr. JENNER. And did he begin to move in a different social circle?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. An entirely different social circle.
Mr. JENNER. And was that a social circle of Russian emigre, a certain set of Russian emigre?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No, no, that's the thing which both churches have against them. He belonged to the church, but he never sent in a donation.
Mr. JENNER. He belonged to the church in the sense that when he felt like coming, he came, but he never supported the church financially?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No, that's right, from that point. Politically he never, and I can say honestly, not one time did he ever discuss with me any political questions or give me his views except one time when he went to take the trip--- the walking trip.
Mr. JENNER. From the border of the United States and the Mexican border down to Panama?
Mr. JENNER. Tell us the incident that you are about to relate?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Except one time, you see, except one time--he was elated because he met Mikoyan in Mexico.
Mr. JENNER. And did he report this to you?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. You know--just trying to show what--he always brags about things--he was bragging about many things.
Mr. JENNER. Was he given to overstatements?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Very much so, and he brags about the fact that he met Mr. Mikoyan, and this is not for publication, and I asked him why didn't he shoot this b - - - - - d?
Mr. JENNER. What did he say--when you said, "Why didn't you shoot him?"
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. He just smiled and smiled with that understanding smile, you see, as if I were taking away from his achievement.
Mr. JENNER. Was he a man of extraordinary dress or attire?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Anything but ordinary in attire.
Mr. JENNER. He was not only provocative in his habits, but provocative in his attire in the sense of nonconforming?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. He is--he is absolutely nonconformist--that's the best definition I can give you.
Mr. JENNER. Does he speak Russian?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, yes; he speaks Russian quite well with a by-the-Baltic German accent.
Mr. JENNER. Does his wife Jeanne speak Russian?
Mr. JENNER. Does she have any peculiarity of accent?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, I say her's would be Polish, but you know, it is very hard to say. I don't think she was born in Russia, I think she was born in France or somewhere, or maybe China, but George's was definitely, because he was born in Russia. Now, to me George now this is again my idea----
Mr. JENNER. We are trying to get a background on him and we want your idea.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I don't believe that George is a Communist, because I don't think that the Communists would stand for the behavior of George in the United States. I mean, that is the only thing that I can give him credit for. To them it is a religion. You see, communism is a religion to them and they lead, as we should, I understand they lead the Spartan life, I mean, they are supposed to, but George led anything but the Spartan life in this country.
Mr. JENNER. Did you have some business relations with him?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I had some small stock deals with him, oil deals when he would drill a well and I would buy a certain portion of the deal, maybe one- sixteenth or something like that. He had one dry hole I can remember and one well that came in very small and nothing to brag about and he tried to get to go with him in business with him in Haiti.
Mr. JENNER. To whom?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. To the banker--the banker--Commercial de Haiti. You can read that and pick up anything you want here and tell me what you want [referring to deponent's file]. He writes all the time he was trying to get a $100,000 corporation set up here to do business with Duvalier, the head of the Haitian Government in the making of hemp and they were giving him concessions and lots of acreage which you could pick up for drilling and everything else, and he was trying to get people to come here and subscribe to stock but he didn't do anything. I believe that I have reported that incident and then there are lots of Russians here and some others told me about that trip of George's.
Mr. JENNER. Down through Mexico?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Down through Mexico, and I believe I called the FBI and told them. I said, "I don't know whether it means anything or nothing.
Mr. JENNER. Who is Mr. John De Menil?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Mr. John De Menil is a very close friend of mine. He is the financial head of Schlumberger Co. and when I wouldn't go with George in the deal, he asked me to give him any suggestion as to who may be interested, so I suggested John De Menil because the Schlumberger Co. is a worldwide organization and they deal with every country in the world--you know what I am trying to say?
Mr. DAVIS. Yes; I do. I am familiar with the name Schlumberger.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. And that he might be interested in going in business in Haiti, and at my suggestion he called him and went to see him and nothing came out of it because John De Menil finally turned him down after the investigation.
Now, I am very sorry that in the past years I have had some correspondence with George but I didn't keep it, but then when things began to pop up and his name appeared in so many different things, I thought I better keep a file on him.
Mr. JENNER. Apparently this Haitian venture was in gestation or in the works as far back as 1962, is that what you understand?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; you know, he was consultant to the Yugoslav Government?
Mr. JENNER. He was a consultant to the Yugoslavian Government?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. He was a consultant to the Yugoslavian Government. In fact, he was sent to Yugoslavian Government with the blessing of our Government, maybe---I don't know under what protocol that we were helping the Yugoslavians, and he went over there but peculiarly, in order to receive the appointment he had to have recommendations of some man known in the industry, and he didn't come to me---I can say this--I don't brag, but if he came to me that would have meant something to him because I was with the Government on a couple or two or three times, but instead of that he goes to Jake Hamon, a close friend of mine, and asked him for a recommendation on that job. Jake said he would not give him a recommendation unless he consults me. That surprised me that he wouldn't ask me right off the bat, but he went around about way. What could I do? Of course I said, technically on the job he is perfectly all right, I mean, he is a good engineer--good petroleum engineer.
Mr. JENNER. And that's your opinion of him?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, yes, without any question. You know, that field is quiet a field--that you have to be supplied with a knowledge of underground structures and movement of the oil, and he had a good job, and as far as know he quit the job--he was not fired.
Mr. JENNER. Are you acquainted with his reputation in this community for truth and veracity?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, I'll say there is no other way around this--I don't think his reputation is that of a truthful person.
Mr. JENNER. His reputation in that respect is poor or bad?
Mr. JENNER. Bad, and his reputation in the community as a man of morals, character, and integrity--is that bad or good?
Mr. JENNER. And his reputation in the community as a man of capability in the profession which he pursues?
Mr. JENNER. For example---as a petroleum geologist?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No; petroleum engineer--good. His knowledge of languages is good. In fact, he taught at the University of Texas. I believe he taught French or Spanish after he went to school there, where my daughter went, one of my daughters, and my son-in-law also went there at the same time.
Mr. JENNER. What is his reputation in the community as being a loyal American? If he has a reputation?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I don't think he has any reputation of that type. Now, remember there are two--he is in a different social circle now, you see, than he was before with his second wife.
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. In fact, if I'm not mistaken how he got to the Oswalds was through the Clarks. You see, the Clarks of Fort Worth were his friends.
Mr. JENNER. From a prior social circle?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No; he met them--I don't know where he met them, but they were not in the so-called Dallas social circle that he was originally in with his wife because of her being a Sharples.
Mr. JENNER. Do you know of any business interests of De Mohrenschildt in Houston?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. In Houston?
Mr. JENNER. Yes; in the last 5 years, let's say?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; he told me that he was going to see Herman and George Brown--they are brothers.
Mr. JENNER. What business are they in?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, again, don't put this down.
Mr. JENNER. Off the record.
(Discussion between Messrs. Jenner and Davis and the witness, Mr. Raigorodsky, off the record.)

Mr. JENNER. Now; I want this on the record.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. George has been friends with many, many influential people in many cities.
Mr. DAVIS. In all of them, I imagine.
Mr. JENNER. Is he a namedropper--is he a man who seeks to be friends of important people?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No--he was my friend, I was his friend--he was Jake Hamon's friend and Jake Hamon was his friend.
Mr. DAVIS. How often did De Mohrenschildt see him?
Mr. DAVIS. No; how often did George De Mohrenschildt see Herman and George Brown?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I don't know, but he has been going to Houston quite often. In fact, he told me that everything is settled--he is going to deal with them in that Haiti situation, and then Herman died.
Mr. JENNER. Do you know of any particular business that he had in Houston?
Mr. JENNER. What information do you have regarding his interests or business in Houston--I take it that it came from his making statements to you?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right, except in his dealing with John De Menil, in which John De Menil sent me the copies of the letters--you see, there is a copy from John De Menil.
Mr. JENNER. Where do you have information as to whether he was required to or did make regular trips, a trip every 4 or 5 weeks, to Houston?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. He---I can't answer that.
Mr. JENNER. He appears to have become acquainted with a gentleman in Houston by the name of Andre Jitkoff?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; sure.
Mr. JENNER. He is a professor at Rice Institute?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right--he's head of the Russian church in Houston.
Mr. JENNER. He is the head of the Russian church in Houston?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; that's right--also his daughter is my--I'm a godfather to Mr. Jitkoff's daughter.
Mr. JENNER. Well, give me in n thumbnail sketch, something about Mr. Jitkoff's background.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Mr. Jitkoff--he is of the "Russian Old Guard," as you call it.
Mr. JENNER. How old a man is he, by the way, your best guess?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I would say around 60 now, no, maybe he is younger--- let's see, his daughter--he probably is closer--is 50 some odd years--55.
Mr. JENNER. He is closer to 50 than to 60?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I believe so.
Mr. JENNER. Is he somewhere between 50 and 60?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right. The first I knew of Jitkoff, he was a tennis pro at the River Oaks Country Club.
Mr. JENNER. Where Dallas or Houston?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. In Houston; and he retired several years ago and he is teaching Russian.
Mr. JENNER. Was De Mohrenschildt an athletic man?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Very much so.
Mr. JENNER. Is he interested in tennis?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; very much so.
Mr. JENNER. What about Mrs. De Mohrenschildt? Is she an athletically inclined person?
Mr. JENNER. Also interested in tennis?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. And does each of them have an interest in any other sport to the extent of engaging in the sport itself?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. As far as I know--swimming.
Mr. JENNER. Ice skating?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I don't remember anything about that, but they always played tennis, you know, they lived next door to me, you see, they played tennis all the time.
Mr. JENNER. Did either of them ever live in the Stoneleigh Hotel?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. At the Maple Terrace. You see, it is owned by the same people the Stoneleigh, Maple, and now there's another Terrace--the Tower Terrace.
Mr. JENNER. Are these buildings all in proximity one with the other?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, yes; and they are owned by the same people, by the Leo Corrigan's son-in-law, Jordan.
Mr. JENNER. In addition to being an expansive person, is De Mohrenschildt a generous man?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; I would say he is a generous man.
Mr. JENNER. Is he the type of person who would seek, out of the goodness of his heart, to help people like the Oswalds or persons in like circumstances?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I would say he will do it because he wants to show what a grand person he is. You see, that would be my quick judgment. It would be different from the other Russians, you see, because they were appalled at the fact that the baby didn't have milk.
Mr. JENNER. That is, De Mohrenschildt might not have been sincere, while the other members who were seeking to assist were genuine and sincere about it?
Mr. JENNER. De Mohrenschildt might be trying to put on a show, for example?
Mr. JENNER. And was he a man given to extreme statements in public?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes. Even though in a Joking way. Maybe, like, at a big party---I'll never forget that, you see. It was for the first time I met him. It was at the Brook Hollow Golf Club before it burned down, at a big party and you know. I had some friends of mine, the Jake Hamons and the others, and suddenly George, you know, he always managed to do it, he always said, "There's a spy in the crowd." You know, he would say, "There's a spy in the crowd," Just for the fun of it or whatever it is. So, we all started to say, "There's a spy in the crowd," and somebody asked me, "Are you the spy?" And I said, "Maybe," but that's the way he always did--just create some kind of maybe innocent unrest, but we didn't know how much truth there was to it.
Mr. JENNER. And would you give us the reason for that view?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Because he's liable to do anything.
Mr. JENNER. Liable to do anything because he is eccentric. He has no control over himself, really?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's what it is--because of his character.
Mr. JENNER. Would you have the impression that De Mohrenschildt is the type of person that might seek to induce others to do something he might hesitate to do himself?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No; I don't think so.
Mr. JENNER. What is your opinion as to the legitimacy of the business in which he is engaged in Haiti?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, from the point of view of the U.S. Government, it is a legitimate business to do business up until now with Haiti. I think the other day--it was the first time that we granted them a loan or aid, but we wouldn't deal with Duvalier, but George moved there he is there, and moved his furniture.
Mr. JENNER. That's so---in the spring of 1963?
Mr. JENNER. And you have had correspondence with him since?
Mr. JENNER. You have given me a file and it is entitled "George De Mohrenschildt". I have been browsing through it. It seems to relate almost exclusively to the Haitian venture, and I don't see anything else in it.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Here is a letter of June 30 that must have been left here.
Mr. JENNER. Is this June 30, 1963, or 1962?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. It must be 1963---yes, it is 1963.
Mr. JENNER. If this was June of 1963, this was before the events of November 22--I gather from your first sentence of this letter that he had been in Dallas?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. After this--that's right; I see it is 1963, after this fiasco here, then he came back to Dallas--which I was called on.
Mr. JENNER. Now, the "fiasco here in Dallas" I take it from your testimony, was the suit brought by De Mohrenschildt against his wife Didi, and that suit was brought in Philadelphia and it had to do with the disposition of a corpus residue of a trust established for George's son.
As I recall, friends of the Sharples family appealed to you, or maybe sued directly, to see what you could do to help out?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No; friends of her family.
Mr. JENNER. Friends of her family?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. In fact, Mrs. Crespi, appealed to me to see what I can do.
Mr. JENNER. Who is Mrs. Crespi?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Mrs. Pio Crespi is a very well known person here. Her husband is retired; he has a company called Crespi & Co.--a cotton exchange brokerage. She is a close friend of the Sharples family.
Mr. JENNER. Mrs. Crespi?
Mr. JENNER. What do you understand Mr. De Mohrenschildt is doing over in Haiti?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Over there?
Mr. JENNER. Yes.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, he told me that he wants to get in on the ground floor and he has a connection with the top banker in the country who is the Duvalier banker, and that way he will be able to pickup some "juicy plunks" in Haiti. That's exactly what he told me. That's why he wanted to organize the corporation here, you see, to go to Haiti and build plants and help them to develop the industry and reap the profits. You see, it so happened that I believe it is very hard to be a specialist in one line, and almost impossible in two, and my specialty is oil and all my business is in oil. If he came with an oil deal, I might be interested.
Mr. JENNER. Would you say in describing this man, that he has a sort of an adolescence personality, a fellow who has really never grown up?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. It isn't a sort of---he is adolescent.
Mr. JENNER. He is adolescent?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. George will never grow old.
Mr. JENNER. But will he grow up; is he lacking in maturity?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. He always did.
Mr. JENNER. And things that amuse him are the sort of things that amused us, let's say, when we were adolescent--in our teens?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. When we were 16---that's right--any kind of pranks.
Mr. JENNER. He is a prankster?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, yes, sir. And he does it so engagingly. I mean, his laugh is a genuine laugh and if you ever heard his laugh--he enjoys it. You see, it is a genuine laugh and of course that is very, very effective, you know, as far as other people are concerned.
Mr. DAVIS. Would you say he is very distinct----
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. There is no word for that--very engaging, I suppose would be the nearest.
Mr. JENNER. I think you mentioned, but I failed to pursue it, I think De Mohrenschildt sought to borrow money from you, did he, in 1963?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Occasionally.
Mr. JENNER. In connection with the Haitian venture?
Mr. JENNER. He did not?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No; he sought to have me to participate in the deal.
Mr. JENNER. And you did or didn't?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I did not.
Mr. JENNER. And that was to be what kind of a deal?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, it is a corporation--here is a chart of what he was planning to do.
(Handed instrument to Counsel Jenner.)

Mr. JENNER. Now, you have exhibited to me a chart that you have taken from your file. There is handwriting on the chart--is that George De Mohrenschildt's handwriting?
Mr. JENNER. Did he send that chart to you?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; here's the envelope.
Mr. JENNER. And have you attached to the chart the envelope in which the chart was transmitted to you, and it is postmarked September 12, 1962, at Dallas, Tex., and is this an outline?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Of what he plans to do there.
Mr. JENNER. Of what he planned to do?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. You see, "Port-au-Prince, August 27, 1962." He shows he will have group insurance, cheap housing development, banking, cotton gin, electric powerplant, import franchise, spinning mill, weaving plant for cotton mill, and he puts down here "credits available for these industries."
Mr. JENNER. Do you have any information that he is surveying the physical characteristics of the surface? Of the entire Haitian area.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, that's what my understanding was, that that is how he got in so close to them--because it was one of his consulting jobs.
Mr. JENNER. For the Haitian Government?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. For the Haitian Government.
Mr. JENNER. Is he still engaged on that; do you know, or are you informed?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I don't know--I am not informed.
Mr. JENNER. Is it your impression that his Haitian proposal was legitimate, that is, a legitimate speculation or otherwise. What I am getting at, in other words, that it was not anything of an ulterior character?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, here's some more of the same thing, which I think might be helpful. Here's what information which they send to John De Menil.
Mr. JENNER. Which he was sending to John De Menil?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. It's a copy for me.
Mr. JENNER. It is to John De Menil?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. Would I have your permission to have these documents in your file duplicated?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, sure.
Mr. JENNER. I'll tell you what would be helpful to me if you would have your secretary restore the file, because you have been generously pulling documents out of it, and if she will restore it to the order in which it was originally?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. All right.
Mr. JENNER. Then I will be able to go through it with you.
(At this point the witness, Mr. Raigorodsky, called his secretary, Mrs. Louise Meek, into the deposing orifice, giving her the instructions to comply with Counsel Jenner's request, and after leaving the deposing office and returning thereto shortly with the file in the order as requested, Mrs. Meek then departed the deposing room and the deposition continued as follows:)

Mr. RAIGORODSKY. This shows the Haitian holding company. It shows what they are trying to do. There is correspondence with the bank and everything.
Mr. JENNER. There were two files there, as I recall it.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. You can have them both--the other one is on the well operation.
Mr. JENNER. Oh, I understand. You were participating with him in some drilling?
Mr. JENNER. And they were either dry holes or they didn't amount to anything?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. One dry hole and one other. I want to ask you something?
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Have you ever talked to Mr. H. Gordon Calder. Mr. H. Gordon Calder is an oil man in Shreveport, La. He is a close friend of mine; in fact, he probably was the first friend I had in this country. We went to the University of Texas together. That's over 40 years ago. His last job before he quit, he was the head of the Southern Production Co., quite a large organization, and George has been working on several oil deals with Gordon Calder, and Gordon Calder has been more in contact with George than I have in the last several years. I see that Gordon Calder was in this well too; my office has the telephone number and address of Mr. Calder, in fact, if necessary, I can call him and he will come over here.
Mr. JENNER. Do you know whether Professor Jitkoff is acquainted with De Mohrenschildt?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, I'm sure he is.
Mr. JENNER. You are acquainted with Basil Zavoico?
Mr. JENNER. Who is he?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Basil he is a Russian. His father was a general in the Russian Army. He has a brother. Basil Zavoico has been--his primary business has been what I would say is a bank and insurance consultant on oil matters. He has been with Prudential Insurance Co.; he has been with Chase National Bank. He was their consultant; and he has been in a business of his own mostly connected with oil financing.
Mr. JENNER. Did he at one time reside in Dallas?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No; he resided in Houston.
Mr. JENNER. Do you know whether he would be acquainted then with George De Mohrenschildt?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, yes; I'm sure that they had some oil dealings. Now, both Gordon Calder and Zavoico probably had more dealings with George than I had.
Mr. JENNER. And he lives in Green Farms, Conn.?
Mr. JENNER. And his place is known as "Cronomere"? Is there anything that occurs to you that might be helpful to the Commission, first, in its investigation of the assassination of President Kennedy; and secondly, in regards to the character and integrity of, background and interests of George De Mohrenschildt?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, the only thing I can say that I was told--it is a hearsay--that after meeting Marina Oswald--the way Russians met, there was a party somewhere.
Mr. JENNER. There was what?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. A party--a social gathering.
Mr. JENNER. A party?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Somewhere I don't remember where.
Mr. JENNER. Here in this country?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Here in Dallas, and at that party, there were several Russians, and they claimed that in walks George De Mohrenschildt with Marina Oswald and her husband. That's the only thing that out of everything that they told me that stuck in my mind.
Mr. JENNER. Do you recall anybody who was reported to have been at this party?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, I'll say that Mr. Bouhe and Anna Meller.
Mr. JENNER. M-e-l-l-e-r [spelling]?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; I'm not quite sure there were quite a few other Russians, but it was George who brought the Oswalds into the party.
Mr. JENNER. We have had some off the record discussions all in the presence of Miss Oliver and Mr. Davis. Is there anything that occurred during our off-the- record discussions that is pertinent, which I have failed to bring out.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No; if it was pertinent I would not have taken it off of the record.
Now, may I say something myself?
Mr. JENNER. Certainly.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Would you care to know what my opinion of the assassination is, or is that just an opinion?
Mr. JENNER. All right; let's have it.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I still believe it is a conspiracy.
Mr. JENNER. Well, on what do you base that opinion?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, I have read--I'm quite sure everything that you have read, and you read probably more than I did because you have these interrogations.
There are just so many things that are unbelievable, that a person like Oswald, would be allowed to do the things in Russia.
Mr. JENNER. We are interested in that sort of an opinion. What is the basis of your opinion in that respect?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, I have studied communism and I have watched them operating, you know.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
(Discussion between Counsel Jenner and the witness, Raigorodsky, off the record.)

Mr. JENNER. Now, I want that on the record.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well--the fact that they gave you all of the record, they gave you all of the records on Oswald, that he was running around in Russia, marrying a Russian woman, that she was allowed to go out of Russia--I know several cases where they wouldn't allow a person whom Americans marry to come for several years. Here, everything was (snapping his fingers) so--just like that. It just reads too much like a fairy tale. I mean, as much as they claim they don't trust him, they surely didn't show it by the action in granting him different things which he received in Russia and in this country.
Now, Marina, I don't know anything about her.
Mr. JENNER. This is your supposition and rationalization on your part?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That is correct.
Mr. JENNER. Now, I have your file
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Now, you take anything you want out of it.
Mr. JENNER. All right. Let's do it this way--I have your file which you have kept marked "Re: George De Mohrenschildt."
Mr. JENNER. I will just identify these documents.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. You don't need to.
Mr. JENNER. Well, I need it for my record.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, all right.
Mr. JENNER. I am not questioning you.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Well, I'm not questioning you.
Mr. JENNER. The bottom portion of this sheet consists of a duplicate telegram, and the upper portion consists of some French language or, what might be clippings from a French newspaper. It is marked with a circle No. 1 [document is in evidence as De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 1].
What are they and how did you get those?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. He sent them to me.
Mr. JENNER. De Mohrenschildt sent that to you?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Oh, yes; it is about a recent voyage to the United States of Mr. Clemard Joseph Charles. You see, he was trying to prove to me that Mr. Charles persona grata, both in Haiti and in the United States and was a big shot and here he was sending me some information about him.
Mr. JENNER. The next document is what purports to be a carbon copy of a letter dated July 27, 1962, addressed to Mr. Jean de Menil of Houston, Tex. It is marked with a circle No. 2 [document is in evidence as De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 5]. It has a typewritten signatures on the second page, "G. De Mohrenschildt." I see in the upper right hand corner, written in longhand "copy for Mr. Raigorodsky."
In whose handwriting is that notation?
Mr. JENNER. That is in George De Mohrenschildt's handwriting?
Mr. JENNER. Did he send that carbon copy of a letter to you?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right, and this was the outlining a project in Haiti and the West Indies.
Mr. JENNER. And was there an outline enclosed?
Mr. JENNER. And is that the next sheet which is entitled:
"Haitian Holding Co.," dated August 1, 1962, and is on the letterhead of George De Mohrenschildt? Petroleum geologist and engineer, Republic National Bank Building, Dallas, Tex. [De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 6.]
That was enclosed with the letter?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes, this is the letter and then this is the outline, and besides that, you see, here is the outline of what he planned.
Mr. JENNER. The outline to which he refers is set forth in the two-page carbon copy of a letter I have heretofore identified?
Mr. JENNER. And there's also enclosed with it what appears to be the mimeographed one piece sheet I have described, dated August 1, 1962, that has the mimeographed signature at the bottom, "G. De Mohrenschildt." Is that his signature?
Mr. JENNER. These documents were transmitted to you. Did you save the envelope?
Mr. JENNER. And is the envelope dipped to the letter in the file? [De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 3.]
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes, this looks like it.
Mr. JENNER. And Mr. De Mohrenschildt addressed it to you, is that in his handwriting?
Mr. JENNER. And that's August 1962?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's it.
Mr. JENNER. Then, next is a letter on a letterhead of---would you read that for me?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes, yes; it is the Banque Commerciale D' Haiti.
Mr. JENNER. And it is dated July 31, 1962. It is addressed to Mr. De Mohrenschildt, a typewritten signature of "Clemard Joseph Charles." This seems to be a duplicated letter. [De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 2.]
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. It's a photostat.
Mr. JENNER. Did Mr. De Mohrenschildt send that to you?
Mr. JENNER. On or about July 31, 1962, or shortly thereafter.
Mr. JENNER. The next document consists of--it looks like an organization chart? [De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 10.]
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. It isn't quite an organization chart, it is the chart of the different projects that he planned to have in Haiti.
Mr. JENNER. And here again there is some longhand writing in ink.
Mr. JENNER. Is that De Mohrenschildt's writing?
Mr. JENNER. And his signature?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. And he also has written on there "Dallas, September 11, 1962."
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. Did you retain the envelope [De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 8], in which that document, marked with a circled No. 5, was transmitted to you, too?
Mr. JENNER. And is it the next document which in turn is clipped to what I called an organizational chart? [De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 10.] And just a diagram?
Mr. JENNER. Did anything else accompany that diagram?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No, I'm quite sure nothing.
Mr. JENNER. Next is a photostatic copy of a telegram. [De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 7]. It appears addressed to Lt.--is that what that is?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. No, no; that's De Mohrenschildt.
Mr. JENNER. It should have been "De" Mohrenschildt and it is "Lt. Mohrenschildt, 6628 Dickens, Dallas."
Mr. JENNER. It has a signature by "Tardieu". How did you come by that?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. He sent it to me.
Mr. JENNER. De Mohrenschildt?
Mr. JENNER. The next document [De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 16], appears to be a copy of a letter on August 7, 1963, addressed to "Mr. Jean de Menil," with a typewritten signature "George De Mohrenschildt." On the face of that document appears more handwriting--do you recognize the handwriting?
Mr. JENNER. Whose is it?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. It's signed by George.
Mr. JENNER. It's George De Mohrenschildt?
Mr. JENNER. And the "Dear Paul," in the footnote at the bottom of that letter is you?
Mr. JENNER. And the memorandum is for you?
Mr. JENNER. And that includes his handwriting on a notation in the upper right hand corner, "Copy for Mr. Paul Raigorodsky", correct?
Mr. JENNER. The next appears to be the original of a letter on blue stationery, the letterhead of which is "3363 San Felipe Road, Houston, Tex." It has a typewritten signature, "John de Menil" and then apparently is signed by a secretary, and it is addressed to you, is it?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; and he investigated it later.
Mr. JENNER. And he is making a report to you and also then decided he Is not interested?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. But read this.
Mr. JENNER. All right.
"Dear Paul:
George De Mohrenschildt is a nice man, but I do not think his project is very well cooked. It is slightly visionary and not specific at all. This, of course, is my own personal reaction which I am giving you for your confidential information. It was also the reaction of my friend on Wall Street to whom I talked in the hope that perhaps he could get something out of the idea of George De Mohrenschildt.
With kinds regards and best wishes,
Yours sincerly,
JdM:cp John de Menil

Dictated by Mr. de Menil over the telephone from New York."
The next document is a carbon copy of a letter dated August 8, 1962, with the typewritten signature of John de Menil. [Raigorodsky Exhibit No. 9.] It is addressed to Mr. George De Mohrenschildt in Dallas. You received that, did you?

Mr. JENNER. And it was transmitted to you by Mr. de Menil's secretary; is that correct?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's right.
Mr. JENNER. The next is also a carbon copy--this is a letter to Mr. George De Mohrenschildt from Mr. John de Menil and it is dated August 27, 1962, with a copy to Paul Raigorodsky. [Raigorodsky Exhibit No. 10-B.]
From whom did you receive that?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. From Mr. de Menil.
Mr. JENNER. And then we have an envelope and a card enclosed. The envelope [Raigorodsky Exhibit No. 10], is postmarked in New York May 11, 1963. The envelope is addressed to Mr. Paul M. Raigorodsky, First National Building, Dallas, Tex.
Do you recognize the handwriting?
Mr. JENNER. On the bottom of the envelope and the enclosed card [Raigorodsky Exhibit No. 10-A]?
Mr. JENNER. And is that [Raigorodsky Exhibit No. 10-A] in Mr. De Mohrenschildt's handwriting?
Mr. JENNER. And was it a card enclosed in that envelope?
Mr. JENNER. The next is an original of a letter addressed to Raigorodsky, dated June 6, 1963, signed, "Jeanne and George de M." [Raigorodsky Exhibit No. 11.]
Is that George De Mohrenschildt?
Mr. JENNER. Is everything that is in handwriting on the face of that letter in his handwriting?
Mr. JENNER. And you received that in due course?
Mr. JENNER. All right.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. This was written from Port-au-Prince.
Mr. JENNER. It was written on the stationery of a hotel. Hotel Sans Souci, Port-an-Prince, Haiti. [Raigorodsky Exhibit No. 11-A.]
The next document is an original letter from the De Mohrenschildts, it is a typewritten letter and is signed, "George and Jeanne" over the typewritten signature "Jeanne and George De Mohrenschildt," and is addressed to "Dear Paul." Up here in the right hand corner is "Port-an-Prince, September 12, 1963, c/o American Embassy." [De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 9.]
That is a letter to you, is it?
Mr. JENNER. You received it in due course?
Mr. JENNER. There is attached to the letter an envelope addressed to you, it looks like that is his handwriting?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes, that George's handwriting.
Mr. JENNER. And is that the envelope in which the letter of September 12, 1963, was enclosed?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes, I'm sure it is.
Mr. JENNER. Is that correct?
Mr. JENNER. Now, Mr. Raigorodsky has handed me an envelope postmarked in New York, May 18. 1963, to which he has made reference in his testimony. It is addressed to Mr. Paul M. Raigorodsky, and it looks like fifth floor, First National Bank Building, Dallas, Tex., and it has a stamp on it, "May 20, 1963." That is a rubber stamp imprinted, accompanying this envelope, and there is handed to me his longhand note on "Racquet & Tennis Club" imprinted card. dated in longhand, "May 18, 1963." [Raigorodsky Exhibits Nos. 14 and 14--A, respectively.]
It begins, "Dear Paul," and is signed by "Geo. De M."
Mr. Raigorodsky, are this envelope and card in Mr. De Mohrenschildt's handwriting?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes, they are.
Mr. JENNER. And was the card enclosed in the envelope here?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes, and here is another letter.
Mr. JENNER. Mr. Raigorodsky has handed me another letter written on both sides, entirely on both sides in longhand, dated June 30, at Miami, and signed "Jeanne and George De M.". [De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 4.]
Do you recognize the handwriting on each side of that letter, Mr. Raigorodsky?
Mr. JENNER. Whose is it?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. De Mohrenschildt's.
Mr. JENNER. And did you receive it in due course subsequent to June 30--of what year?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. 1963. This is very interesting--this is a map of Haiti. You see where he sent me he said "Our Shada Concession."
Mr. JENNER. Mr. Raigorodsky, has opened up a Texaco map of Haiti, [De Mohrenschildt Exhibit No. 11] Republica Dominicana on the face of the map---there is handwriting--do you recognize that handwriting?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; that's George De Mohrenschildt's.
Mr. JENNER. Did you receive that from him?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I can't answer that--it probably is mentioned in one of the letters.
Mr. JENNER. One of the letters I have identified?
Mr. JENNER. But all of that is his handwriting?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; and you see, he has written in here "Oil possibilities Mellon Concession" and "Our Shada Concession."
Mr. JENNER. What is "Shada"?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. That's where he claims he had the concessions for the hemp.
Mr. JENNER. For hemp or sisal there?
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Yes; sisal
Mr. JENNER. These things will all show up on any photostat immediately of this?
Mr. JENNER. Now, I state for the record, Mr. Raigorodsky, has authorized us to make a copy of papers I have identified and identified them in the record, so one thing is helpful--I don't have to go to the trouble of preparing a receipt because you have it in the record, and secondly, in the event--if we seek to question Mr. De Mohrenschildt I will have these documents identified as to their authenticity by way of this questioning of you.
Thank you very much, sir, you have been extremely patient and I would like the record to show that Mr. Raigorodsky appeared voluntarily, also he has a very bad cold which has been quite obvious and came to the U.S. attorney's office about 10:30 a.m. and then we repaired to here, his office, and it is now 2:15 in the afternoon and he has been under questioning during that whole period of time. I appreciate this personally and I know the Commission will. I offer in evidence the 'foregoing documents as Raigorodsky Exhibits Nos. 9, 10, 10-A, 10-B, 11, 11- A, 14, and 14--A.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I hope to help you in some way, but I'm just as lost at this moment as I was then.
Mr. JENNER. Well, you have been very helpful throughout this.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. Miss Oliver, the reporter, will transcribe this deposition possibly during the course of the week, if not, it will be ready next week, and you have the right to read it and make some corrections, suggestions or additions, and to sign it. That is a privilege that is accorded you, if you wish to examine it. You may also have a copy by purchase of a copy from Miss Oliver and whatever your deposition is with respect to all these alternatives.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. I would like to have a copy for sure, and I may, when you might note in spelling in some of the names, I will be glad to help you with that if you will call me on the phone before you put it down.
Mr. JENNER. All right, we thank you very much.
Mr. RAIGORODSKY. All right, thank you.