Courtesy of Jean Davison, who uploaded this to the CIS POLITICS Forum 
here is the Sciambra memo.  

And here also is Jim Garrison's account of what Perry Raymond Russo 
told Sciambra.

Interesting comparison!

DiEugenio, or course, swallows Garrison's account hook, line, and 
sinker.  See DESTINY BETRAYED, pp. 143-145.




    I.  Sciambra's memo on his first interview of Perry Russo:


--------------------------------------------------------

                 M E M O R A N D U M

                 February 27, 1967

TO:              JIM GARRISON
FROM:            ANDREW J. SCIAMBRA
RE:              INTERVIEW WITH PERRY RAYMOND RUSSO
                   311 EAST STATE STREET
                   BATON ROUGE, LOUISIANA

  On February 25, 1967 I interviewed PERRY RUSSO at the above
mentioned address.  RUSSO was very cooperative and said that he
was glad to see me as he had been hounded to death by the local
news media.  He said that he would give us all the help that he
possibly could, and that he would furnish us with names of
individuals who could be most helpful to us in our investigation.
  
  He said that one of these persons is AL LANDRY who lives in
Gentilly.  He said that FERRIE was "in love" with LANDRY.  He says
in 1962 (the approximate month he cannot remember, but he says
that it can be ascertained through LANDRY's mother) he went to
LANDRY's house to try to locate him.  He was told at the time by
LANDRY's mother that FERRIE had taken LANDRY out of the country,
and that she did not know where they were.  RUSSO told me later on
in the interview that FERRIE had taken LANDRY out of the country twice
and this was the first trip.  He said that later on he found out that
FERRIE had taken LANDRY to Canada and to Mexico.
  
  RUSSO said that he and LANDRY and a small group of other boys
used to always pal around together and that it was common
knowledge to everyone that FERRIE was a homosexual and RUSSO and
his buddies were trying to alienate LANDRY from FERRIE.  RUSSO
said that LANDRY had some strange fascination for FERRIE and was
greatly impressed by FERRIE's intelligence.  He says that he is
sure that FERRIE had LANDRY under some sort of spell from time to
time.  He said that what proved this to him was that in 1962
LANDRY took him to FERRIE's apartment out in Kenner and FERRIE was
having a meeting with about eight or ten young boys who were in
the Civil Air Patrol.  FERRIE's mother was at the meeting and
FERRIE introduced his mother to RUSSO.  RUSSO said that he went to
the meeting because LANDRY had told him that FERRIE was a great
hypnotist and at this meeting FERRIE would demonstrate some of his
hypnotic powers.  RUSSO said that LANDRY could furnish us with the
names of all the people who were at the meeting, and he could also
furnish us with a lot of information about FERRIE for he and
FERRIE put on a hypnotic demonstration and used LANDRY as his
subject.  He said that FERRIE stuck pins in LANDRY's body and LANDRY
would not feel any pain.  He said FERRIE gave a very long lecture on
hypnotism and posthypnotic suggestions and demonstrated his power by
using LANDRY as his subject.  After the demonstration, FERRIE showed him
and LANDRY five diplomas that he had and said that he had received his
Ph.D. in two of these subjects.  He also had various pieces of machinery
in his attic and surgical equipment and bones which he doesn't know if
there were human or animal.
  
  RUSSO said after the meeting he and LANDRY went home and he did not see
FERRIE for a while.  He said a little later on he went to LANDRY's house
to talk with him and LANDRY's mother told him that FERRIE had again taken
her son out of the country.  She told RUSSO that in her opinion FERRIE
was a very strange and weird individual and that she had often told her
son to stay away from him but that her son would not listen to her.  She
said that it was as if FERRIE had some strange power over her son.   She
asked RUSSO to help her to try to alienate her son from FERRIE.  RUSSO
said that he would try and do this.
  
  RUSSO said that the next time he saw FERRIE was a few weeks later when
he was standing on the corner of Decatur and Canal with a friend of his
by the name of NILES PETERSON who presently drives a Yellow Cab, Number
792.  FERRIE, LANDRY, and a Spanish guy or Cuban guy with a beard who
could speak no English, and six or eight kids in khaki uniforms passed
them on the street.  He said the Cuban fellow was in green fatigues.  He
said FERRIE and LANDRY told him hello and FERRIE kept walking with the
group, however, LANDRY stopped for a moment and told him that they were
going somewhere but that he would get in touch with him in a few days.
RUSSO asked LANDRY where had he been, and LANDRY told him that FERRIE and
he had been to Mexico.
  
  In a few days RUSSO contacted LANDRY and told him that his mother did
not like FERRIE and that everyone knew that FERRIE was a homosexual and
that he did not think that he should be associated with FERRIE.  LANDRY
said that he would think about breaking off his relationship with FERRIE
but that it would be difficult.  He said that FERRIE was teaching his
group the art of fighting jungle warfare and that FERRIE's plan was to
help liberate the South American countries.  He said that FERRIE often
referred to wiping out the rest of the BATISTA gang in Cuba.  RUSSO said
that he and several of his cousins all began to "bug" LANDRY about
FERRIE, the C.A.P. jungle warfare, and the liberation of the South
American countries.  He said that this eventually got to LANDRY and
LANDRY began seeing FERRIE not as much as he normally would have.
  
  RUSSO said that one night he and LANDRY and TIM KERSHENSTINE who lives
on 2061 Pelopidas, Phone Number 943-8490, and possibly NILES PETERSON
were in the Intelect which is located on Bourbon Street and they ran into
DAVE FERRIE.  FERRIE said that he would like to talk with LANDRY
privately and RUSSO told FERRIE that whatever he had to say to LANDRY he
should do it in front of everybody.  RUSSO then told LANDRY to tell
FERRIE to take a walk and that he didn't want to be involved with him
anymore.  LANDRY then told FERRIE that he wanted to break off his
relationship.  FERRIE then told LANDRY that he would talk to him about it
later and he then turned to RUSSO and told him that either he or one of
his men would kill him for what he had done to him and LANDRY.  RUSSO
told FERRIE to just get away and stay away from LANDRY because he was no
good for LANDRY.  He said that LANDRY had told him that FERRIE used to
hypnotize him and give him posthypnotic suggestions.  He also said that
FERRIE eventually confessed to him that he used hypnosis for sexual
purposes.
  
  RUSSO said that after this incident on Bourbon Street he said that he
did not see FERRIE for about six months, and that one day he was driving
his car on the Veterans Highway, and he noticed that he was starting to
get a flat tire.  He pulled his car into a service station and told the
two young kids who were working there that he wanted to change his tire.
About this time DAVE FERRIE came up to him and tapped him on the shoulder
and told him hello and asked him where he had been as he had not seen him
for some time.  RUSSO then said that they exchanged casual remarks and
pleasant conversation.  RUSSO said that FERRIE was either the owner or
the manager of this service station.  He said that FERRIE then left and
went and sat in a white or very light colored compact car and began
talking with the individual in the front seat.  RUSSO said that he then
pulled his car right alongside of this compact car, and he looked at
FERRIE and the individual that he was talking to in the front seat
several times while he was waiting there for his car.  After the car was
fixed and he was about to leave the station, FERRIE asked him where was
he staying because he wanted to come over and talk with him about a few
business deals.  RUSSO told him the address, and he said that a short
while thereafter FERRIE came to his apartment.  He said FERRIE brought
over to the apartment some pornographic film that he had and that he
wanted RUSSO to sell for him.  FERRIE told him that he had just returned
from Cuba and that he could get all of this kind of film that he wanted.
He said that he could get more film out of Cuba very easily and if RUSSO
could sell the film for him, they could all make money.  He said that he
would have to get $150 a roll for the film because it was pretty risky
going in and out of Cuba.  RUSSO said the film consisted on one man and
one woman and that the story was essentially that of a woman cheating the
man in a game of cards, and the man eventually beating her up and raping
her for doing so.  He said the man in the picture was either Spanish or
Cuban, looked to be strong and rather husky and had black hair.  He said
that he had a patch over one eye.  The girl was an American.  RUSSO said
that he took this film and sold it to someone who he believes eventually
sold it to a seaman (RUSSO said that he would try and obtain this film
for us).  He said FERRIE then began coming to his apartment on an average
of twice a week and that one time he came over to his apartment and told
him that he had been working with chemicals and studying their effects on
the human body.  He said that FERRIE had told him that he had extensive
knowledge about drugs and mixtures of drugs and how they would affect the
human body.  FERRIE showed him a drug that he said he concocted himself
and that it was very similar to aphrodisiac but even better.  He said
that it would make a person extremely passionate and would enable him to
forget all of his inhibitions and obtain a very free and loose attitude
about love and sex.  He said it would also erase any feelings of guilt
that a person might have toward any type of sexual behavior that he might
care to indulge in.  He said that FERRIE told him that he had used this
drug with different friends of his and this is how they reacted to it.
He also admitted to RUSSO for the first time that he was a homosexual and
he wanted to know if RUSSO would be willing to take the drug.  RUSSO said
that he did not care to take the drug.  FERRIE also told him that he
could get all of the heroin that he wanted but that he would not fool
with it as it was too hot to handle and that he could concoct drugs that
would serve his purpose.
  
  RUSSO said that one day he and KENNY CARTER, a colored boy who used to
attend Loyola University and who he believes attends L.S.U.N.O., were in
his apartment on Elysian Fields when FERRIE came in with two Cubans who
were dressed in green fatigues.  One of the Cubans had a beard and the
other one didn't.  Both of them were very strongly built, had dark
complexion, and rough looking.  Their faces were extremely tough looking.
RUSSO said that they looked as if they could bend a bar of steel.  He
said that they were around 28 to 35 years old and that FERRIE introduced
them, but he cannot remember their names.  He said that they didn't say
anything because they could not speak English.  He said that FERRIE at
this time started making remarks about Cuba and criticizing the United
States.  He said the people in Cuba are starving to death and they have
no medicine and that he blamed the United States for this.  He said that
the United States is a barbaric nation and that no nation as powerful as
the United States should be that barbaric.  He also referred to the two
Cubans with him as instructors in the manly art of jungle warfare.  After
this conversation FERRIE and the two Cubans left.
  
  RUSSO said that he did not see FERRIE again until he went to his
Louisiana Avenue Parkway apartment with KENNY CARTER looking for him.  He
said that FERRIE was there and he was with a Cuban guy in green fatigues
who was younger and not nearly as powerful looking as the other two
Cubans.  He said that FERRIE introduced him to someone he called his
roommate.  He said FERRIE mentioned his name, but he can't remember it
right now.  He said this roommate had sort of dirty blond hair and a
husky beard which appeared to be a little darker than his hair.  He said
the guy was a typical beatnik, extremely dirty, with his hair all messed
up, his beard unkept [sic], a dirty T-shirt on, and either blue jeans or
khaki pants on.  He said he wore white tennis shoes which were cruddy and
had on no socks.  He said the roommate appeared to be in his middle
twenties.  RUSSO said that he went to FERRIE's apartment about five or
six times and he can remember seeing the roommate about two or three
times.  He said that the roommate never talked to anybody.  As soon as
anyone would come into FERRIE's apartment, the roommate would get up and
leave and go into another room by himself.  RUSSO said that one day he
tried to make conversation with the roommate by asking him where he was
from, and the roommate told him from everywhere, and so he didn't try to
talk to him any more because he appeared to be a real "punk."  He
mentioned this to FERRIE, and FERRIE told him not to worry about it
because he was a funny guy, and he didn't like to talk to anybody, all he
did was sit down on the porch in the dark and think and read books all
the time.  FERRIE told RUSSO that he had tried the aphrodisiac drug on
his roommate and it worked perfectly.  He said that he and his roommate
laid in bed naked, and he gave the drug to his roommate and his roommate
because very passionate and aggressive and had intercourse with FERRIE.
He said that after this was over, the roommate had no recollection of
what he had done.  He said that his roommate was a perfect subject for
this.  He also said that his roommate did not get along with his Cuban
friends and that this is the reason why RUSSO never saw the roommate with
any of the Cubans or with anybody else for that matter.  RUSSO said that
as soon as he would walk into the apartment, the roommate would walk out
without saying a word.  FERRIE repeated that these Cubans who were coming
to his apartment were jungle fighters and would help liberate South
America.  RUSSO said that he believes that KERSHENSTINE, KENNY CARTER,
and maybe NILES PETERSON, and LANDRY would know more about the roommate
and be able to recognize him.  RUSSO said that it would be hard for him
to pinpoint the time right now but that he knew that was in 1963, and he
believes it was somewhere between May and October.
  
  RUSSO said that during the summer of 1963 FERRIE became obsessed with
the idea that an assassination could be carried out in the United States
very easily if the proper amount of planning was made.  Every time RUSSO
talked to FERRIE he told him more and more about how he was the kind of
person who could successfully plan an assassination.  RUSSO said that he
never referred directly to J.F.K. and always used the President of Mexico
or PRESIDENT EISENHOWER as an example.  FERRIE asked him, "How many times
do you remember seeing EISENHOWER riding in an open top automobile
exposed to everyone without any protection whatsoever?" He said the
limousine usually drives around ten miles an hour and frequently stops at
different points.  Therefore, it would be extremely easy to shoot
somebody.  FERRIE said that the whole key to a successful assassination
would be the availability of exit and the use of the mass confusion that
would result from such a plot.   FERRIE said that one person or a small
group of people could sit down and plan the whole thing out and get out
of the country after it was over before anybody knew what was going on.
He said that he was the key to the availability of exit as he could jump
into any plane under the sun and fly it out of the country to a place that
would not extradite, such as Cuba or Brazil.  He said even if for some
reason the availability of exit were blocked, the people could still
escape by making use of the mass confusion that would erupt.  He said
that he was sure that he could plan the whole thing very easily.   RUSSO
said that they got into many discussions about FERRIE's ideas on how easy
an assassination would be and RUSSO said that many times he told FERRIE
that it would not be as easy as he thought.  RUSSO said that he
remembered once going to the Nashville Street Wharf to hear J.F.K. make a
speech and he remembers that he saw a Secret Service man guarding the
President every five or ten feet.  RUSSO said that he knew that these
were either Secret Service men or FBI men because these were the only
people not facing J.F.K. when he was talking.  These people were looking
into the crowd watching for any suspicious activity.  FERRIE said that
all of these complications could be worked out with the proper amount of
planning.  FERRIE said that a person could use the mob confusion to help
him get away but that the person should not make the mistake of getting
messed up in the crowd.  FERRIE also said that another way that an
assassination could be successfully carried out would be through someone
very intimate to the White House who had sophisticated knowledge of
medicine and chemicals and how they would cause the human body to react.
He said with all the knowledge he had of medicine and its reaction in
relationship to the human body, he was sure that he could commit a
perfect murder and no doctor in the country and no autopsy report in the
country could detect it. FERRIE said that he had extensive knowledge of
medicine and chemicals and their effects on the human body.  FERRIE said
that he knew what the coroner and doctors looked for when they make their
autopsy report and as a result of what they would find they would have to
say that the death was a result of natural causes.  FERRIE said that one
thing that had to be remembered is not to physically disturb the
apartment or the house because if the furniture were messed up, it may
cause some suspicion as to the cause of death and further inquiry might
result.  He says murders are committed every day, that stupid doctors and
coroners term natural deaths.  FERRIE said that he knew of a type of drug
which once it got into the bloodstream would cause physical reaction that
would result in extensive brain damage or blood clot and eventual death.
He said the physical reaction to this drug would be such that no doctor
in this country would call it anything but a natural death.  He said the
chemical involved would dissipate without leaving any trace at all and
the autopsy would say something like "blood clot."  RUSSO said that in
September and October of 1963, FERRIE got worse in his speeches about an
assassination.  He said that for the first time since he began talking
about assassinations he began making direct references to J.F.K.  FERRIE
told RUSSO on several occasions that "We will get him" (meaning J.F.K.)
and that "It won't be long."  RUSSO said that he hasn't spoken with
FERRIE since the assassination.
  
  I then pulled out some pictures and I began to show RUSSO the pictures
asking him whether or not he could identify anyone in the pictures.  He
picked out three people.  I did not disclose the names of any of the
people whose pictures I showed him.  I merely said "Do you know or
recognize any of these people?"  The first person he picked out was
ARCACHA SMITH and he says that ARCACHA looks very much like the Cuban in
the pornographic film that FERRIE brought to his apartment and which he
sold to a seaman.  He then called his brother, Steve, over to look at
ARCACHA's picture and asked him if that face was familiar to him and his
brother, Steve, said "Yes, it looks like the guy in the film."  RUSSO
said he recognized the face because, "to be perfectly honest, I looked at
the film quite a bit."  At this point he asked me if anything he was
telling me would be used against him.  I assured him that it wouldn't.
The next picture that he identified was that of CLAY SHAW.  He said that
he saw this man twice.  The first time was when he pulled into FERRIE's
service station to get his car fixed.  SHAW was the person who was
sitting in the compact car talking with FERRIE.  He remembers seeing him
again at the Nashville Street Wharf when he went to see J.F.K. speak.  He
said he particularly remembers this guy because he was apparently a
queer.  It seems that instead of looking at J.F.K. speak, SHAW kept
turning around and looking at all the young boys in the crowd.  He said
that SHAW eventually struck up a conversation with a young kid not too
far from him.  It was perfectly obvious to him that SHAW stared at his
penis several times.  He said that SHAW eventually left with a friend.
He said that SHAW had on dark pants that day which fit very tightly and
was the kind of pants that a lot of queers in the French Quarter wear.
SHAW had on a corduroy type jacket which was black with white stripes.
The third picture that RUSSO identified was that of LEE HARVEY OSWALD.
When he looked at the picture, he began shaking his head and said that he
doesn't know if he should say what he's thinking.  I told him to go on
and tell me what was on his mind and that we would accept this in
relationship to all the information we had, and it may not be as wild as
he things it is.  He then said that the picture of LEE HARVEY OSWALD was
the person that FERRIE had introduced to him as his roommate.  He said
the only thing that doesn't make him stand up and say that he is sure
beyond the shadow of any doubt is the fact that the roommate was always
so cruddy and had a bushy beard.  He then drew a beard on the picture of
OSWALD and said this was FERRIE's roommate.  He suggested that I put a
beard on OSWALD and not say who it was and show the picture to KENNY
CARTER, LANDRY, KERSHENSTINE, PETERSON, and maybe a few of the people in
FERRIE's C.A.P unit who may have been up to his apartment.  RUSSO was
sure that they would say that that was FERRIE's roommate.  He also said
that we might show the picture to ROBERT LEMOYNE who lives in the
vicinity of Nichols High School as he was in contact with FERRIE around
that time. RUSSO said the more we talk the more comes back to me and he
said that the name LEON really rings a bell.  He also said that if he
were hypnotized he may have total recall on names and places and dates.
He said that he had been hypnotized like this before and it had helped
him to recall and that he would be glad to do it for us.
  
  RUSSO told me that he now works at the Equitable Insurance Company in
Baton Rouge, Phone Number 926-5300.  He said that the best time to reach
him would be around 9:30 in the morning or 4:30 in the afternoon Monday
through Friday.  He says that on the weekends he usually leaves town
mostly coming to New Orleans.  I told him that we would be in touch with
him.

                    [End of memo]



  II.  Jim Garrison's version of what Russo told Sciambra, from "On the
Trail of the Assassins," Warner Books, 1991:

-------------------------------------------------------------
    About 8:00 p.m. Sciambra arrived at Russo's house; Russo had just
returned from WBRZ-TV studies, where he had been interviewed for the
evening news (and kept away from reporters from the competing local TV
station).  Sciambra spent several hours with Russo, and showed him dozens
of photographs.  Russo recognized several Cubans, and then, when Sciambra
produced a picture of Clay Shaw, Russo exclaimed, "I know him.  I met him
at Ferrie's."  Of course, he had known him only as Bertrand, but his
identification was positive.
   
   Russo was significant because he was the first eyewitness to have
overheard Shaw and Ferrie engaging in a discussion of the prospective
murder of John Kennedy.  In my judgment, even without Russo we had
sufficient evidence to support a charge against Shaw of participating in
the conspiracy to murder the President.  But that evidence was
circumstantial.  As an experienced trial attorney, I knew that laymen are
particularly responsive to eyewitness testimony, and Russo provided that
in full measure.   Consequently, upon first learning how strong
the conversation between Shaw and Ferrie was, I decided to take the
additional precaution of confirming the veracity of Russo's recollection.
The lawyers on the special team and I considered using a "lie detector"
test, but since such tests are highly imperfect and inadmissible in court
we rejected the idea.  Instead, we chose to use hypnosis and Sodium
Pentothal[R].  Both treatments were administered to Russo under close
medical supervision.  And both revealed that Russo was indeed telling the
truth.
   
   So when we called Perry Russo to the witness stand at Shaw's
preliminary hearing we were confident.  After the usual preliminary
questions.... assistant D.A.'s Ward and Oser asked Russo about a
gathering at David Ferrie's apartment.
   
   Russo responded that when he dropped in at Ferrie's place, "somewhere
around the middle of September 1963," an informal gathering--which he
described as "some sort of party" was just breaking up.  Some of Ferrie's
usual bevy of youngsters were there but soon left.  Russo said a former
girlfriend of his, Sandra Moffett, was also there for a while.  After she
departed, there remained, according to Russo, a scattering of anti-Castro
Cubans--a group which occasionally came by to visit Ferrie.  A few of
them stayed on for a little while.
   
   Also there was a tall, distinguished-looking man who had what Russo
described as "white hair."  Even as he said this he involuntarily glanced
over at Shaw who was continuing to gaze imperturbably at the paneled
courtroom wall in front of him.  Ferrie introduced the man to Russo as
"Clem Bertrand."
   
   Russo remembered having seen the tall, white-haired man once before,
when President Kennedy was in New Orleans for the dedication of the
Nashville Street Wharf.  Russo had noticed the man because he was the
only one not looking at Kennedy.  The man had kept studying the crowd,
and Russo had concluded that he was a Secret Service agent.
   
   At the gathering at the apartment, Russo recalled, Ferrie introduced
him to a young man who was called "Leon Oswald."  But Russo could not
firmly identify this man as the same man he later saw on television as
the suspect in the assassination, Lee Harvey Oswald.
   
   After the others departed, only "Oswald," Bertrand, Ferrie, Russo, and
several of the Cubans remained.  The talk turned to the possibility of
assassinating Fidel Castro.  This conversation was speculative and
strongly anti-Kennedy.  No one present--including Perry Russo--had any
use for Castro or President Kennedy.  Moreover, the conversation was
particularly heated because in August the Kennedy administration had
established an embargo to stop the flow of arms to South Africa.  Some of
those present felt a comparable limitation of arms to countries or even
guerrilla forces opposed to Fidel Castro might soon follow.
  
  Despite the enthusiasm of Ferrie, Russo, and the Cubans for the
elimination of Castro, Russo's testimony continued, the man called
Bertrand, who was also basically in favor of the idea, cautiously
demurred. "There would be a real problem, he said, "of actually getting
at him."
  
  Ferrie immediately produced a map of Cuba and spread it out on a table.
He pointed out one potential beach landing area after another, speaking
expertly about accessibility, tides and timetables, and routes to Havana.
   
   In this conversation Russo was as much a protagonist as a listener.  A
tough-minded young man with a high degree of curiosity, Russo was not one
of Ferrie's typical playmates.  Ferrie, virtually ostracized by most of
the adult world, found in Russo an intellectual companion who stimulated
him, and so they became close.  Russo estimated that Ferrie had been to
his house at least a dozen times and that he had been to the pilot's
apartment 30 to 40 times.  This appeared to be why the man introduced to
Russo as Clem Bertrand accepted his presence when the topic later became
the removal of John Kennedy.
   
   Russo, his testimony continued, remained after the Cubans had left,
assuming that he would get a ride home from Ferrie.  There were just the
four of them now--Ferrie, Russo, the man called Bertrand, and "Leon
Oswald."
  
  Even if it were impossible to get at Castro, Russo recalled Ferrie as
saying, it did not mean they could not get at Kennedy.  This sudden shift
of the objectives, Russo indicated, was inevitable now that the group had
grown smaller.  In recent months, Ferrie had become obsessed with the
subject of Kennedy.  He had begun carrying news clippings with him,
stories of such actions by the Kennedy administration as an F.B.I. raid
on the Schlumberger blimp base at Houma and the August embargo against
the shipment of arms to South Africa.  At the slightest provocation he
would pull clippings from his pocket and denounce the actions bitterly.
  
  Ferrie, Russo said, was pacing back and forth, saying they could get
rid of Kennedy and blame it on Castro.  That then could be an excuse to
invade Cuba.  Ferrie was drinking from his constant cup of coffee as he
talked.  All they had to do, he added, was get Kennedy out in the open.
   
   Ferrie was excited now.  Hyperthyroid, he became excited easily and
when he became excited,he became loquacious.  When he became loquacious,
he became magnetic.  All eyes were on him as he continued to describe how
easily the job could be done.
   
   Ferrie emphasized the "triangulation of crossfire" was the way to do
it.  Shooting at Kennedy from three directions, one of the shots would
have to get him.  Russo recalled the importance Ferrie put on this.
   
   [Garrison footnote:
    
    As it happened, triangulation fire does appear to have been used to
kill President Kennedy.... But this does not necessarily mean that Ferrie
knew in advance about such a detail.  The elimination of an important
individual by the covert action machinery of a government intelligence
agency is a "need to know" operation.  It is doubtful that Ferrie
actually knew that fire by triangulation would be used against
Kennedy....]
   
   Russo described Ferrie's electric tension when he talked about the
assassination of Kennedy, and the contrast of Bertrand, whom he recalled
as sitting back, poised and relaxed, smoking his cigarettes.  In spite of
Ferrie's excitement and his volubility, Russo went on, Bertrand remained
the central presence in the group.  Now, Russo said, Bertrand spoke up.
   
   Bertrand said it was important for each of them to be in the public
eye when it happened.  Ferrie responded that he had already decided that
he was going to be at the university at Hammond (Southeastern Louisiana
University).  Bertrand commented that he probably would be traveling, on
his way to the west coast.
   
   [Garrison footnote:
    
   As it turned out, Ferrie did go to the university at Hammond, where
he slept at the dormitory.  However, this was on the way back from his
curious trip to Texas, and by then the assassination already had
occurred.  Clay Shaw, on the other hand, indeed had gone to the west
coast when the assassination took place. He had been scheduled to make a
speech in San Francisco, which had been arranged for him by Mario
Bermudez, the head of the international relations department for the city
of New Orleans, a close personal friend of Shaw's.]
   
   Now, Russo testified, for the first time it struck him that these men
were talking about where they were going to be -when- President Kennedy
was killed.  There no longer was speculation here, as in the discussion
of Castro's possible assassination.
  
   He testified that Ferrie once again got back on the subject of
triangulation (crossfire)--once he got his teeth into a subject, he did
not let it go easily--but by that time Russo was tired and his memory of
details was hazy.  He remembered that Dave Ferrie gave him a ride home.
   
   Some months later, Russo went on to testify, approximately in March
1964, he happened to drive into David Ferrie's new service station.  As
he arrived there, he saw Ferrie in conversation with a familiar-looking
individual.  It was the tall, white-haired man who had been at Ferrie's
place, the man who then had been introduced to him as Bertrand.  At the
conclusion of his testimony, Russo was asked to identify the man.
Unhesitatingly, Russo indicated the defendant, Clay Shaw.
                                                      [pp. 176-181]