#: 20551 S7/Political Motives [JFK] 06-Apr-94 20:08:02 Sb: #20398-#McCarthy/Reaction Time Fm: Bob Artwohl 71712,2151 To: Paul J. Burke 74656,2333 (X) Paul, >>>In the neck wound, I see an instant application of a lot of pressure to the controlling nerves of the arms, no feedback thru the brain required.<<< As usual, the Warrenati mind is right on target, er, so to speak. As a result of several recent conversations with a few neurosurgeons and biophysicists, I have reached the conclusion that: 1. JFK was not exhibiting a "Thorburn response." He was exhiting an immediate response to the bullet passing through the base of his right neck. It sort of looks like a Thorburn's position, but it is not a truly what Thorburn was describing, which is a much delayed reaction (days to months) following a low cervical cord transection. 2. JFK's reaction to the neck wound was, for all intents and purposes, instantaneous to the hit at Z-223/224. As the bullet passed through his neck, the pressure cavity caused an immediate and wide spread stimulation of all the nerves in the immediate vicinity, that is of the brachial plexus, the large groups of nerves that emerge from C5 - T1. These are the nerves that supply motor function to the arms. Neural impulses of large nerves travel quite rapidly, up to 130 meters per second. The nerves supplying motor function to shoulder and arm muscles carrying neural impulses at around 80 meters (or 3,120 inches) per second. It would take an impulse originating in the right brachial plexus about 0.003 to 0.004 seconds (about 5% of the time span of one Z frame) to reach the right biceps muscle about 8 -10 inches away. The average muscle can reach a full state of contraction against no load as fast as 1/20th of a second, or a little faster than one Z frame. Thus, despite the arguments of many pseudo-experts (like McCarthy), not only could JFK have reacted within one or two Z frames of being shot, he would be EXPECTED to react within one frame, based on the anatomy and ballistics of his injury. When one watches JFK react, it is apparent that the right side reacts just before before the left side. This is further proof that the bullet passed through the right side of his neck, since the right sided structures were stimulated first. It should be immediately apparent that the neurophysiology exhibited by JFK in the Z-film supports, the upper location of the back wound. A bullet passing lower, i.e. at the level of the 3rd thoracic vertebrae would have entered the chest cavity. This would have prevented a massive firing of the nerves of the brachial plexus since the air filled lungs would have easily absorded the kinetic energy of the decelerating bullet and the we would not have seen the peculiar arm movement of JFK. I hope this helps. Sorry that I've taken so long to answer a question you put forth several weeks (or was it months?) ago. Bob A. #: 20624 S7/Political Motives [JFK] 07-Apr-94 13:17:49 Sb: #20599-McCarthy/Reaction Time Fm: Bob Artwohl 71712,2151 To: Joseph N. Riley 74104,3011 Joe, >>>There are reflexes that occur at the spinal cord level (which is part of CNS, BTW) and do not need to be transmitted to the "head" (cerebrum). Example: you're foot will start to withdraw from a sharp object even before you're "aware" of it. Sometimes, though, the difference is due to differences in conduction speed -- .<<< As you must know, the flexor reflex involves the stimulation of several nerves: the afferent sensory nerves, the internuncial pool of neurons within the spinal cord, and the efferent motor nerves. This is a fairly complicated response, so it is not surprising that would take a bit longer than the JFK response which was due to direct stimulation to efferent motor neurons. Or stated another way, JFK's movement was not a reflex, it was an immediate response to direct stimulation of fairly large motor neurons with very high conduction velocities. Or stated another way, McCarthy was comparing apples to oranges. Bob A. #: 20622 S7/Political Motives [JFK] 07-Apr-94 13:17:32 Sb: #20583-#McCarthy/Reaction Time Fm: Bob Artwohl 71712,2151 To: John C. Klotz 73562,2604 (X) John, >>> Shall I burn my copy of Case Closed. Now that you've destroyed Lattimer as an authority perhaps you could honor us with the *name* of another authority willing to stand behind your trashing of McCarthy?<<< I notice your response to being taught some basic neurophysiology is an IMMEDIATE personal attack on other individuals and an attempt to focus the argument on individual, rather than facts. Since anyone who dares to come up with real science (which supports the SBT), are treated much like Gallileo and Copernicus were and become immediate targets you will forgive me for declining naming my sources at this time. They are faculty positions at the University of Maryland School of Medicine (my alma mater), and the Neurotrauma unit of Maryland Institute of Emergency Medical Systems Services (MIEMSS), plus a few other places. You are welcome to take my note to the physiology or biophysics department of a nearby medical school and get your own independent corroboraton. Besides, we have a resident neuroanatomist (who I assume knows a little neurophysiology) on these boards--Joseph Riley, PhD. I am sure he will correct me if I am wrong about this and somehow I expect he'll try to come with a rebuttal . However, much of what I've come up I found in basic neuroscience and found in my medical school textbooks. Here's two excerpts from TEXTBOOK OF MEDICAL PHYSIOLOGY, by Arthur C. Guyton, W. B. Saunders (1971): "A muscle contracts extremely rapidly when it contracts against no load--to a state of full contraction in approximately 1/20 second for the average muscle." -- page 85. "The velocity of conduction fibers varies from as little as 0.5 meters per second in very small fibers up to as high as 130 meters per second (the length of a football field) in very large fibers." -- page 61 >>>Now that you've destroyed Lattimer as an authority perhaps you could honor us with the *name* of another authority willing to stand behind your trashing of McCarthy?<<< I have not "destroyed Lattimer as an authority." Dr. Lattimer's authority is in ballistics, and to date, he has the full support and agreement of virtually every single wound ballistics expert who has read his work. Not only that, he has a slide in his collection showing the precise mechanism of the mechanism behind JFK's arm movements--a expanding pressure cavity at the base of the right neck causing stimulation of the nerves of the brachial plexus, with the right reacting just before the left. I have not "trashed" McCarthy. He gave an opinion in an area where he holds no expertise--neurophysiology. If this were a real trial, his testimony on this would have never been allowed to stand, or a sharp defense lawyer would have had a true expert ready to counter with real facts. >>>Shall I burn my copy of Case Closed.<<< If havng a few mistakes in a JFK assassination book is a criteria for a book burning, you have the materials needed for a bonfire. Rather than burn any books, I suggest you read each critically, and do a little independent research, and find out where each is wrong and where each is right. When you do this, you will find that folks like Lattimer and Posner are right more often than the likes of Livingstone, Groden, and many contributors on this forum. Bob A.